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Topic: Healthcare Debate (was: Quesada apologizes) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Donald Miller
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Posted: 14 April 2010 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 1  

Yes, Mike, I do believe that. Or, to be more specific, I believe that
all whites, benefit from racism, so all whites are, by default, racist.

Not all whites are bigots, however, and many non-whites are
bigots.

Wow all whites, by default racist, ....I am stunned for words.
I know intellectually that you and I have two different meanings for racist...but that statement almost hurt me like a physical blow.

I believe that classism is a real thing and alive and active in our country...I don't however believe that everyone who has ever benifitted from distinctions of class, through no actions of their own...(born wealthy) are classists...the distinctions relies on acts of the person ...

I believe you presume too much.
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 14 April 2010 at 10:20am | IP Logged | 2  

Don, in the mircocasm level, you are correct, it was a racist situation.

But then, when you leave the school you are again part of the bigger
community. It's hard for non-whites to escape the powerlessness of
their situatiion.

I'm not calling all whites or all of you whites racist, but I do say the
problem isn't something to be dismissed, exists at a bigger level and
discussing it will cause me to lose the last few friends I have here.

A price I'm willing to pay, though. I have strong feeleings about this
unpopular topic.

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Donald Miller
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Posted: 14 April 2010 at 10:20am | IP Logged | 3  

Okay racist system I can get behind and wrap my head around...

I work every day to reverse the negative effects of an oppressive racist system...

Much better.
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Donald Miller
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Posted: 14 April 2010 at 10:22am | IP Logged | 4  

Not at all Mike...

Count me as a friend!

I love your honest open input into these discussions...alot of people are unaware that there are still problems...I find your views sometimes frustrating...sometimes fascinating...always illuminating.

D-
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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 14 April 2010 at 10:51am | IP Logged | 5  

All whites benefit from racism,


*****
Well rich and middle class white people do.
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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 14 April 2010 at 11:42am | IP Logged | 6  


 QUOTE:
Paulo, your arguments don't make sense. They literally have nothing to do with one another. Nothing you've said since your initial post actually has anything to do with your initial post, either in content or in context. It's just random nonsense. You're pulling random quotes about different subjects and policies that aren't associated with the initial article, and you never even read your initial article it seems because if you did, it answers a lot of your questions.

I think you're spewing some serious bullshit here, Brad. And splitting hairs. Reagan's Executive Order says "No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination." Show me where it says that excludes enemy combatants. Show me where in Lincoln's General Order where it's particular about the type of assassination it's prohibiting. And, again, the Times article simply reports the policies. It doesn't answer any of the questions. Nor does it make preemptive execution right or justifiable. Really, Brad. Cut the bullshit.

Yes, I made an error in linking, which I admitted to. The gist of the argument is still the same. Both Lincoln's and Reagan's Orders prohibit assassination and neither makes any provisions about it.

But, since you're so apparently and inexplicably confused by my arguments, let me make it as simple as possible: is it justifiable to kill a man and deny him a trial simply for suspicion of a crime; before he even commits it? Just going by the word of the authorities, statements such as "he's gotten involved in plots"?

Consider the article here, which argues the decision to kill an American citizen rests solely with the Executive Branch. If that's the case, isn't that the least bit scary to you?


Edited by Paulo Pereira on 14 April 2010 at 11:57am
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Michael Sommerville
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Posted: 14 April 2010 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 7  

Race issues are a touchy subject and it is easy to be labeled by not being politicaly correct. I disagree, all white people do not benifit from racism. By using broad generalizations once again an argument most likely will be dismissed. 
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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 14 April 2010 at 11:59am | IP Logged | 8  

 Jodi wrote:
Paulo I am one of the more liberal members of this group,( outside of those across the border into Canada eh.)  But if a soldier gets a clear shot to that guys head, yes I would say "take it!" .  As I would with Osama Bin Laden.  I am more of a go after the real criminal kind of girl, instead of the let's just lob a bomb in a crowd and hope we get him kind of girl.

All I can say, Jodi, is that I disagree. And when it's okay to kill a person before even being declared guilty by any kind of official court, then I don't know what terms like 'liberal' even mean anymore.


Edited by Paulo Pereira on 14 April 2010 at 11:59am
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John OConnor
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Posted: 14 April 2010 at 12:04pm | IP Logged | 9  

"

Yes, Mike, I do believe that. Or, to be more specific, I believe that 
all whites, benefit from racism, so all whites are, by default, racist."


Ladies and gentleman, a new low in stupidity. Congratulations!
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Matthew McCallum
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Posted: 14 April 2010 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 10  

Mike O'B,

I know you're more of a Malcolm X guy than a MLK guy. I tend to default the other way. So we're in the same playground, just you like the slide and I like the swings. (I was originally going to type monkey bars -- a perfectly fine piece of playground equipment -- but immediately realized the unintended message. That could have been a massive faux pas!)

I don't know if we can substantiate the premise that the white poor benefit from racism. If you are of extremely low income in this country, there cannot be a better quality of poverty if you are white versus black versus any other ethnic background.

I assert there is a greater community-of-interest based on the commonality of economic level as opposed to skin colour. I will grant the point, however, that differences in skin colour is often used as a wedge issue to drive these natural collaborations apart. That's what made MLK so dangerous in the last years of his life, the possibility he might unite the huddled masses in the quest for economic justice.

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Michael Sommerville
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Posted: 14 April 2010 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 11  

If Osama is killed by a soldier, be it American, Canadian, British or any other he will become an even greater martyr. A couple of things may happen. Al Qaeda could splinter with infighting between those who want to lead or it will harden it's resolve to fight the Western powers. The best option is to have him put on trial like Sadam was. It lets the people of the Middle East know they are in control of  their future.

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 14 April 2010 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | 12  

On the most basic level - and my apologies in advance here - no
matter how poor or put-upon you are, so long as there are whole
races of people worse off than you, due to an institutionalized
system of one race being dominant, than you are better off than
those other people.

Look - this is hard to accept because we tend to personalize things. I
get that; it's only in the last few years that I no longer considered
myself "poor". I'm not rich by Obama's tax standards, but I keep a
roof over my head, dress nice, eat three times a day and can afford
luxuries. I think I'm rich. But I get that even at my poorest, if I
worked hard and did the right thing I could advance to the middle
class standard that I'm at now, and I also realized that whereas it was
possible for my black friends, it wasn't a guarantee.

I too grew up poor in a minority community - like Donald, I too saw
how the way the odd man out gets treated. I hated being the only
blonde kid in school.

But I also saw other things. I was never harassed by cops for doing
nothing, as my friends were. I never had people lock their cars doors
or women clutch their purses as they passed, as I saw happen to my
friends.

The black man is made to look scarry in our media but the kids I saw
get profiled? All sweet kids who only wanted the same things I did -
to laugh, play with toys, talk to girls, dance to music...

I could walk away from that environment; they couldn't.

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