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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 1
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I like Al Cook's avatar!
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Michael Sommerville
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 417
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 4:27pm | IP Logged | 2
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By Mike's definition and clairification I take it that all men are sexist. I'm not saying he or anyone else is right or wrong. Everyone has his or her opinions and beliefs and no one can dictate how someone feels. Thoughts and ideas are malleable and thats a good thing. If everyone agreed on everything life would be very dull and stagnant. It's by having civil discussions like this that people start to think. I personally am enjoying everybodies input.
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John OConnor
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1112
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 4:29pm | IP Logged | 3
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OK, Al, since you seem to know & understand all, What exactly did Mike O'B mean when he said [and I quote from him]:
"so all whites are, by default, racist"
I'm not "presuming" he is wrong.
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 4:32pm | IP Logged | 4
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Michael Sommerville wrote:
| By Mike's definition and clairification I take it that all men are sexist. |
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No, but by Mike's definition and clarification, men benefit from a societal system where sexism still exists. Which is demonstrably true still, sadly. Look at the still-existing gap in pay between men and women doing the same job, for example.
Edited by Al Cook on 14 April 2010 at 4:34pm
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | 5
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John O'Connor wrote:
| OK, Al, since you seem to know & understand all, What exactly did Mike O'B mean when he said [and I quote from him]:
"so all whites are, by default, racist" |
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I don't need to answer that John, as Mike has done a far better job of clarifying his own thesis than I ever could.
Perhaps you'd like to re-read his posts, and see if it 'clicks' for you this time.
I am, of course, going to ignore your presumption that I think I know all and understand all, since clearly that is not a claim I would ever make.
Edited by Al Cook on 14 April 2010 at 4:36pm
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Michael Sommerville
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 417
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | 6
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I dont think an opinion can be wrong. If that is what he sincerly feels it can only be reenforced or changed by discussion. That said, generalizing in my opinion weakens an argument.
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Al Cook
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 4:38pm | IP Logged | 7
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Would you say that's true in most cases, Michael?
Edited by Al Cook on 14 April 2010 at 4:39pm
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Michael Sommerville
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Joined: 12 April 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 417
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 4:43pm | IP Logged | 8
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It's my understanding that, in Canada at least, women and men are paid equally for the same jobs. The inequality come when factoring in a secondary salary which is usually but not always the womans job. The inequality comes from the types of jobs that are typically categorized as mens work and womens work eg. comparing a construction workers salary to a casher.
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Michael Sommerville
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 417
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | 9
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I honestly do. Like the healthcare debate. Missinformation was put out. No ones mind would be changed by saying if you believe that crap you are a moron. By open and honest discussion minds could be and were changed.
Edited by Michael Sommerville on 14 April 2010 at 4:46pm
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 4:57pm | IP Logged | 10
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In Canada, equal pay for equal work has been legislated, and is supposed to be the case. In practice, however, it is not. In Ontario, for example, it is not required for employers to prove compliance. It is up to the worker to demand their pay meet the pay equity standards. So, the sexism of the past is still in the system, and instead of redesigning the system, it has essentially just been said to women "it's okay to ask for more."
Which, sadly again, is pretty much the way it works with the racism inherent in society as well.
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Mike Benson
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Joined: 04 January 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 849
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | 11
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I think Mike's explanation was honest and compelling. And if it made some people uncomfortable, good. Until we all get out of our comfort zones, change will not come. And let's not forget, he was responding to an inquiry about personal definitions of racism. So, of course he was going to comment based on "his and his alone experiences."
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
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| Posted: 14 April 2010 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | 12
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Excellent point, Mike B.
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Topic Closed)
