Look at Lincoln - fought a war to keep America united. Does that sound like today's Republican party? Honestly - I'm not saying that as a D - I'm listening to the propaganda out there - the "real American" talk, and take back our country, etc.

Hell, Eisenhower would be a pink-o commie by today's standards.

And FDR? The first modern Democrat as we know them? He choose D as his party just to distance himself from his more famous cousin Teddy. (Also because it fit with the New York political game of the era)

So... things change. They're changing now. And will change again. My grandkids might be passionately fighting for the party of the poor, the Republicrats or something.

So, in a sense, it's not the labels that matter, it's the beliefs, but right now, we can hang those labels on certain beliefs.

Sorry for the ramble - I needed a break from some technical writing - thought I'd take a moment to chat with my friends on my favorite artist's forum over a cup of coffee. Back to work for this guy!

You know, Mike O'B, prior to the election of Obama I shared with some of my political friends the observation that Richard Nixon was the last liberal president the nation had had. And, of course, since Nixon is a consumate villain, they all protested vigourously. Until they paused and looked at his record in office.

Again, prior to Obama, it was hard to believe that a modern day Democrat could and/or would advance some of the legislation the Nixon Administration pursued. And as for a Republican, not a chance. It's rather sobering to see how far the national belief needle has moved in 40 years.

I agree with you that there's a lot of gamesmanship going on. So much wasted energy for so little advantage, if any. So much effort to play to the base, to pass the litmus test and retain your political purity for the primaries.

Perfect case in point: Does anyone REALLY believe that John McCain backs the Arizona immigration legislation? I guarantee you, if he was unopposed in the AZ Senate Primary, he'd be on the television 24/7 to denounce it.

Like - not sure if it's drifted off yet, but in the old election thread, I was luke-warm on McCain in 08 - I wouldn't have voted for him, and I LOVED Obama, but I wasn't too upset about a guy like McCain running on the national ticket. He seemed reasonable. It was when Palin was added to the ticket that I really started to take it seriously - she shouldn't be allowed to run a light-switch, much less any form of government. He's one of the better Republicans today, and she's just about the worst.

The major issue I have with Sarah Palin is that she doesn't seem to be a very serious person. Or, perhaps I should say a very thoughtful person. Palin might be bright and clever and perhaps even smart, but she gives the impression of someone not only not very wise, but also not interested in gaining wisdom.

I thought that was a good summation of her - though I also believed what Levi Johnston wrote about her and that's widely considered to be fiction. Still... even if it is fiction, it sure has a ring of truth to it.

More to the point - when we examine examples of what no one will doubt is "conservative media" - FOX, New York Post, Radio, etc, they never ever ever err on the side of liberal, yet... all forms of media supported Bush unquestioningly till Katrina and that dead vet's mom. The supposedly liberal New York Times was the biggest cheerleader of the Iraq war. Judy Miller did as much to get that war off the ground with false information as did anyone in Bush's cabinet. MSNBC? Liberal bastion? They hosted a Michael Savage TV show. Has FOX ever put a real liberal on? (Colmes doesn't count - that guy is a fool. And I like Shep Smith, but he swings both ways. In terms of news, I mean.)

You see my gripe with that label - there's no such thing as pure liberal media outside of something like "Worker's Vanguard" - that socialist newspaper guys sell on street corners, yet the conservative media is mainstream. Pure conservative media.

Yeah, some markets will run to the left when there's no danger in it for them, but by and large, the so-called "liberal media" does whatever their corporate masters tell them to.