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Topic: Healthcare Debate (was: Quesada apologizes) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 01 May 2010 at 1:50pm | IP Logged | 1  

I think Mexicans have a right to live in California, Texas and other border states. Considering that land was taken from their ancestors by the U.S government. 
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 01 May 2010 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 2  

Oh good god.  That's such a simplistic view of history that I'm hard pressed to even muster up enough energy to debate it with you.
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 01 May 2010 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 3  

I would execute anyone who hires someone for less than minimum wage.
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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 01 May 2010 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | 4  

Then don't.

Im not casting judgment over what happened then. It was war and shit happens. But I don't see what moral ground people stand on telling their ancestors they can't live here.


Im not going to try to pretend like whats going on in Arizona is anything but "Kill all the brown people."
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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 01 May 2010 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | 5  

I think Mexicans have a right to live in California, Texas and other border states. Considering that land was taken from their ancestors by the U.S government. 

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Then I think you should get the hell off my ancestors' land.  (My great-grandfather was a full-blooded Cherokee.)  Go back to England or France or wherever your ancestors came from....

 

(Hey, I like this slippery slope stuff!)

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 01 May 2010 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 6  

I think you misunderstand Victor's point, Kevin - what he's suggesting is the right for people like you (say, Cherokee) to stay here, not for anyone to leave.
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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 01 May 2010 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | 7  

Exactly Mike. Im not saying anybody should leave. Im saying im not going to tell people to leave. In any case I have enough Native American blood im safe either way.
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 01 May 2010 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | 8  

On a totally unrelated note (I say sarcastically) - so another gem from Arizona yesterday was a bill designed to shape what's taught in AZ colleges - basically limiting or excluding Ethnic Studies classes.

The commentary I heard was a lot of white people saying how glad they were that we would be putting an end to blacks and latinos grouping together; and they tried to frame it in this ideal of MLK - how we should not be seen as a black or a latino or a white, but as a PERSON.

Wow, sounds good right?

Wrong.

This, by the way, is why whites are so quick to support MLK - because a casual misunderstanding of his words absolves people of responsibility and ignores reality just to make people feel better.

Yes, MLK talked of wanting to see a day when a person would be judged by their character, not by the color of their skin, but he didn't say that day was here - and it's not. So long as people are still judged by the color of their skin, no matter how else you describe it (ie, claiming that the debate is about laws and immigration, when it's blatantly about Mexicans) - as long as that persists, and the white race remains the domminant race in our culture, there is no even ground to judge a person by their character.

I get that a lot of us want it to be that time - that we would love to not have to deal with race issues and bigotry. When we can get to that future that MLK talked about.

But we're not there yet. Not when people are calling out black president a monkey or pretending that their fear/distrust/hatred of Mexicans has anything to do with immigration, etc

We're closer. Who would have thought a Black President would happen in our lives? But we're not there yet. You don't take the cast off till the bone is healed.

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Brett Wilson
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Posted: 01 May 2010 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | 9  

Here's the thing, tho. It's ILLEGAL immigrants. Key word: ILLEGAL. If anything else mentioned illegal activity being a top priority, you'd be probably championing that cause. Why do you have such a problem with someone wanting to put a stop to something ILLEGAL?

No human is "illegal" Also how did your ancestors get here? Did they have written permission?
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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 01 May 2010 at 4:38pm | IP Logged | 10  

The main thing I see this Arizona bill accomplishing is causing cops to be murdered. You hear about it with people with two strikes against them. They get pulled over for a routine traffic stop, panic and murder the cop who was just telling them their turn signal is out. Arizona is now trying to manufacture these types of incidents. 

Edited by Victor Rodgers on 01 May 2010 at 4:39pm
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 01 May 2010 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | 11  

Already happened, Victor - news yesterday that an officer of some sort was shot in the desert during a routine stop.
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Matthew McCallum
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Posted: 01 May 2010 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | 12  

As a LEGAL immigrant to this country, I can perhaps offer a shade of insight to the process of immigration.

When my wife signed her contract with Redding Medical Center 15 years ago, under the recently adopted Free Trade Agreement she could have gone to the airport that afternoon, had her passport stamped with a temporary work visa and gone to work in the US for the term of the contract. Had I gone with her, I could have applied and received a guest visa subject to six month renewals. But on a guest visa, I would not be entitled to work or attend school during my time in the US. Not a very inviting prospect. Plus, the timeline for applying and receiving a green card while WITHIN the United States was calculated at three years. Far better, we were told, to have that green card when you first come across the border.

So, instead of rushing south immediately, with her contract promising steady employment in-hand we applied for green cards. As my wife's employer wanted her down as quickly as possible, our applications were fast-tracked with INS.

After six months we learned our applications were denied. Not by any fault of our own, mind you. No dark secret that tipped the security background check. Rather, any application that has not been processed after six months is automatically denied. (Yes, you read that right: We got a six month timed-out denial on a FAST-TRACKED application.)

We appealed the denial, got into a different queue and two months later we both had green cards.

Eight months from initial application to green card in-hand. Fast-tracked, with sponsorship from a major medical corporation and attorney representation, and it took eight months. PRE 9/11. Goodness knows how tough the process is today for anyone unskilled and without a sponsor or representation.
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