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Doug Jones
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Posted: 22 February 2010 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | 1  

Loved JB's run on this book, and the origin of Nudge and Grunt stacks up with some of my favorites among his work.

One thing I always wondered, and I'm working from memory, here: In one issue a scientist references Rita's short hair from a past encounter. She replies with something like "No, doctor, my hair has always been long."

Was this just a bit of casual conversation, or did I miss something? Again, don't have the issue in front of me but within the context it seemed as though there was a story behind Rita's response.
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 22 February 2010 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | 2  

 John Byrne wrote:
...if anyone actually pays attention, the deeper similarities are, indeed, much closer to the FF...

...if the folk at DC were, in fact, deliberately copying Marvel's success, they would have only the FF to borrow from, in terms of this kind of group dynamic...

On thing I always point out to people who insist on comparing X-Men and Doom Patrol is that The Doom Patrol is more like the Fantastic Four in characters and in tone. And the tone of the book was definitely not like any other DC comic at that time.

You have the super-intelligent leader.

You have the female member.

You have the orange-colored misfit trapped in a body he hates, who is a gruff fellow, but also the heart of the team.

You have the youngest male member, a flying, radiant character.

 

And they would bicker and quarrel with each other at times.

I know Arnold Drake was big on claiming the X-Men ripped off his ideas, but come on...! Doom Patrol was certainly DC's attempt at doing the Fantastic Four. Luckily for DC, Marvel's X-Men came along and took off the attention on those similarities, and people focused more (almost entirely it seems) on the similarities between the X-Men and the Doom Patrol.

Frankly, IF Marvel (Stan, Jack, and others) were "ripping off" Doom Patrol with X-Men, then it was a case of DC ripping off Marvel ripping off DC back again.

 

Edited: I wrote "Fantastic Four" when I meant "Doom Patrol."



Edited by Matt Hawes on 22 February 2010 at 3:23pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 22 February 2010 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | 3  

Frankly, IF Marvel (Stan, Jack, and others) were "ripping off" Doom Patrol with X-Men, then it was a case of DC ripping off Marvel ripping off DC back again.

••

Or what we in the Industry call "Tuesday".

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Arc Carlton
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Posted: 22 February 2010 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | 4  

There are certainly some similarities with the FF.
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 22 February 2010 at 8:23pm | IP Logged | 5  

Question for those who were around reading or in fandom in the 60's... did people make note of any supposed similarities between the DP and the X-Men back then?  Or was it an idea that only emerged in the 70's or 80's when the X-Men became huge?






Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 22 February 2010 at 8:23pm
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Michael Arndt
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Posted: 22 February 2010 at 8:26pm | IP Logged | 6  

I really enjoyed JB's Doom Patrol.
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Eric Lund
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Posted: 22 February 2010 at 9:25pm | IP Logged | 7  

You also have The Brotherhood of Evil and The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. Both villain groups for each team. Not sure what the dates are in comparison on these villain teams but that adds considerably to the X-Men connection. I would hazard to guess that the Doom Patrol's Brotherhood of Evil came first. Plus General Immortus had a past with the Chief similar to Xavier and Magneto but I guess again that would be more like Reed and Doom come to think of it. And the concept of the hero and villain having a past together is nothing new really...

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Joel Tesch
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Posted: 22 February 2010 at 11:05pm | IP Logged | 8  

 I would hazard to guess that the Doom Patrol's Brotherhood of Evil came first.

Just did a web search...looks like BOTH debuted in March of 1964. Weird!

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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 22 February 2010 at 11:20pm | IP Logged | 9  

The Brotherhood of Evil and the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants both debuted the same month (cover date March 1964), so unless one buys Arnold Drake's theory that Stan had a mole in the DC offices, neither one could have copied the other. 

As to the idea of a leader in a wheelchair, it makes no sense that Stan and Jack would copy that.  Even if we accept the premise that Stan somehow heard about the DP before their first adventure was published, why would he want to imitate something DC was doing?  As Roy Thomas has pointed out, it's more likely the opposite would be true... if Stan had heard DC was already doing something similar to what he was planning, his natural inclination would be to change it.  At that point, copying DC was the last thing he wanted to do.

Those two points of similarity almost certainly must be chalked up to coincidence. 
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 22 February 2010 at 11:54pm | IP Logged | 10  

And when comparing The X-Men to The Doom Patrol, let's not forget that the seeds for what would become the X-Men can be seen as having been planted in "Amazing Adult Fantasy" #14, with the story of young mutant, Tad Carter.
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Jim Muir
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Posted: 23 February 2010 at 5:30am | IP Logged | 11  

<<.if anyone actually pays attention, the deeper similarities are, indeed, much closer to the FF>>

I dont see it.

Surface similarities aside: wheelchair bound leader, evil brotherhood etc etc, X-Men and Doom Patrol are primarily about outcasts and misfits... helping society but feared, shunned and hated by those they have sworn to protect.

Fantastic four is at its heart about family. A close knit, functional, A-list celeb family and loved by society.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 23 February 2010 at 5:49am | IP Logged | 12  

... helping society but feared, shunned and hated by those they have sworn to protect.

••

Certainly the Doom Patrol was TURNED INTO that, by later writers, but there is little evidence to support this view in the original series.

++

Fantastic four is at its heart about family.

••

And DOOM PATROL isn't? It doesn't take blood and marriage to make a family, you know.

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