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Jamal Washington
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2009
Posts: 82
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| Posted: 04 March 2010 at 7:19pm | IP Logged | 1
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Moore didn't flat out say he hated the Killing Joke, but did say that as he read it now, it's just not as good as he thought it was when he first wrote it and that he would have either approached it differently or did something totally different.
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John Bodin
Byrne Robotics Member
Purveyor of Rare Items
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3911
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| Posted: 04 March 2010 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | 2
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I liked Top 10 quite a lot -- entertaining, at least, and I'm not a huge fan of Moore's work in general, so that's saying something.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2241
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| Posted: 04 March 2010 at 9:38pm | IP Logged | 3
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DC seems to be afraid of pissing off those pros and fans (not to mention, Moore himself) who loved The Killing Joke.
************************************************************ ****************DC being afraid of pissing off Alan Moore is a pretty hilarious concept. Incidentally, though I know you weren't necessarily lumping him in with the pros and fans who love it, Moore has stated repeatedly that he hates the Killing Joke. Cites it as an example of imitating Watchmen, actually. _______________________________ Didn't DC agree to most of Moore's demands when it came to his America's Greatest Comics work? If DC wasn't afraid of pissing Moore off, they would have said "no" to his demands. And let's not kid ourselves, if Moore approached DC and offered to write a book for them under certain conditions, DC would do everything in their power to try and accommodate Moore and try to give him just about everything he asked for. And yes, I know that Moore has said in interviews that he doesn't like The Killing Joke. However, that doesn't mean that many pros might wrongly believe that he would get pissed off if they dare undo what he did to Barbara Gordon.
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Bobby Beem
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2009
Posts: 161
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| Posted: 04 March 2010 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | 4
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You're quite the mindreader, Rick. Hard to argue with so many ifs and mights.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134314
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| Posted: 04 March 2010 at 9:54pm | IP Logged | 5
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Moore wanted to work with Bolland, and Bolland wanted to do Batman -- so the best Moore could do was strip the Joker of all his mystery, brutalize Barbara Gordon, and have Batman act in a manner that was completely out of character. Thank dog Brian had not expressed an interest in doing something with SUGAR & SPIKE!!
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James Malone
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 September 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 340
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| Posted: 04 March 2010 at 10:05pm | IP Logged | 6
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Um Rick, you realize ABC comics started as an imprint at Wildstorm while it was at Image.... when Wildstorm sold to DC books like ABC books, Astro City, etc went with it. And Jim Lee stated in interviews, probably jokingly, that he feared what Alan Moore would do to him for making the sale to DC. DC didn't have to cave into any demands. ABC comics were hardly risque or taboo. The first conflict, regarding the League of ExtraOrdinary Gentlemen, resulted in Moore pulling the book from DC and ending most of his own writing on ABC titles. DC certainly didn't cave to keep Alan Moore's League or him writing the ABC titles. Nice fairy tale you made up there though...
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Keith Thomas
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 3082
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| Posted: 05 March 2010 at 1:05am | IP Logged | 7
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Why was Killing Joke ever allowed to be part of the regular continuity? I remember when it came out and my brother showed it to me, and I was like "what the hell is going on in Batman comics?", I know it got me NOT to want to read the regular books, I had no idea who Alan Moore was at the time.
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Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 4018
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| Posted: 05 March 2010 at 1:32am | IP Logged | 8
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Why was Killing Joke ever allowed to be part of the regular continuity?
--
So the joke would be on us.
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Jim Muir
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1384
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| Posted: 05 March 2010 at 2:37am | IP Logged | 9
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<<But you're okay with his contempt for female characters, right?>>
Can you be a little more vague, Dom?
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 16137
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| Posted: 05 March 2010 at 3:30am | IP Logged | 10
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The art was good, but I've never liked the Killing Joke. It's plain nasty and has very little entertainment value.
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Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
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| Posted: 05 March 2010 at 5:42am | IP Logged | 11
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The art was good, but I've never liked the Killing Joke.
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Yet it's celebrated as an important Batman story. To which I say, "Huh??". At best it's a Joker story with Batman as a supporting charatcer. If it wasn't written by Moore, it would have been forgotten.
(And it's funny that neither Bolland nor Moore seem very happy with the story in retrospect).
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 05 March 2010 at 7:48am | IP Logged | 12
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At best {THE KILLING JOKE is} a Joker story with Batman as a supporting charatcer. •• Not even that. really. For almost fifty years the Joker had been a cypher, a man without a past, without a face. Even "The Man in the Red Hood", which had provided an "origin" for the Joker, managed to do so without telling us anything at all about who he was before he entered Batman's life. THE KILLING JOKE is a self-indulgent piece of masturbation, in which a writer who has risen above editorial control, was allowed to bring his own "vision" to the characters without any consideration of their past or future. It added absolutely nothing to the Joker, and in fact subtracted a great deal.
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