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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132538
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| Posted: 30 November 2014 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 1
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Now most threads like this do a good job assessing the problems with current super-hero comics. But a question that rarely gets asked is what to do to change it. How do you make good old-fashioned mainstream super-hero comics that people want to read and, hopefully, buy? ••• How to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic? Before you worry about content, worry about the basic business model under which we currently labor. The stranglehold of the DSM prevents anything getting done that is not tried and true. Retailers (not all, but enough to make a difference) want product "guaranteed" to sell. Which means any newcomer in the marketplace has no hope unless, for I unknown and mostly unpredictable reasons, the new product is deemed "hot." And don't kid yourself that quality has anything to do with that!
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 01 December 2014 at 9:23am | IP Logged | 2
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I'm guessing there are contracts involved, but why can't the Big Two create a dsitribution department within their 'empires', where retailers can order directly without using Diamond?
If they print to order, and offer returns, retailers may order more. At the same time, these 'offices' could contact other outlets (like bookstores, Target, etc) directly, offering their wares.
I know, probably naive and uninformed...
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2196
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| Posted: 01 December 2014 at 9:48pm | IP Logged | 3
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I'm guessing there are contracts involved, but why can't the Big Two create a dsitribution department within their 'empires', where retailers can order directly without using Diamond?
If they print to order, and offer returns, retailers may order more. At the same time, these 'offices' could contact other outlets (like bookstores, Target, etc) directly, offering their wares.
I know, probably naive and uninformed...
_______________________________
Marvel kind of did that in the 90's when they brought Heroes World Distribution, which ended badly and resulted in Diamond eventually becoming the only comic book distributor in the DM. JB and Matt Hawes could probably fill you in on he details of why this venture failed.
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Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 3847
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| Posted: 02 December 2014 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | 4
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My son is nearly 13. When I was that age, I'd been reading comics for at least 6 years. He never got into them, and he doesn't know anyone from his class who has. The market is simply not there for them anymore. That message really sunk in when I saw a Spider-Man book in the local store that was labelled "Comics for adults"!
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John Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3146
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| Posted: 02 December 2014 at 1:24pm | IP Logged | 5
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Petter, my twin boys are 15. They go to conventions with me, but they don't read comics. One of my boys was big into the GLC but when they had the big 52 and changed so much he was done. They do read Manga.
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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 02 December 2014 at 10:40pm | IP Logged | 6
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I read an interesting article from a couple of years ago where one of
our favorite people, Jim Shooter, commented on the end of newsstand
comics. It's a little out of date since B&N quit carrying Marvel but the
history is interesting, assuming the info is true.
Link
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16463
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| Posted: 03 December 2014 at 12:54am | IP Logged | 7
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Greg Woronchak wrote:
| ...I'm guessing there are contracts involved, but why can't the Big Two create a dsitribution department within their 'empires', where retailers can order directly without using Diamond?... |
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Besides the publishers not having the infrastructure in place to support such an endeavor, it would be a nightmare for retailers to have to deal independently with each and every publisher, and likely it would kill off many publishers who couldn't handle distribution upon publishing comics.
Distribution calls for warehouse, trucks and drivers and gas, employees at the warehouses, and a sales staff, and representatives to deal with retailers, and so on. That's a lot for a publisher to take on.
Rick Whiting wrote:
| ...Marvel kind of did that in the 90's when they brought Heroes World Distribution, which ended badly and resulted in Diamond eventually becoming the only comic book distributor in the DM. JB and Matt Hawes could probably fill you in on he details of why this venture failed.. |
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Pretty much for many of the reasons I listed above and more.
Under owner Ron Perelman (the Revlon tycoon, NOT the actor) Marvel in the early to md-1990s' tried to eliminate the middle-man and become its own distributor.
In a shot heard around the comics world, Marvel bought a regional distributor named Heroes World and tried to make it a national distribution plant overnight. Marvel first claimed that its comics would also be available through other distributors (there were a few at this time, not just Diamond Comics), but very quickly it became the only place in the Direct Market to order Marvel comics.
DC, Darkhorse, Image, the next largest publishers of the era, all signed exclusive agreements with Diamond Comics Distributors in retaliation. Capitol Comics Distributors, once a major distributor of comics, was left with the short straw and very soon afterwards fell to Diamond. Marvel filed for bankruptcy protection and folded back into Diamond, though the publisher did work out a deal where it has its own separate catalog sold along with Diamond's "Previews" catalog.
I recall the day that I learned about the demise of Capitol Comics Distribution. I was actually calling my representative at the distributor to complain about the prices on my invoices. When I called, a person at the other end of the call answered "Diamond Comics."
I said, "Diamond? I'm sorry, I was calling Capitol Comics."
"This is Capitol, we were bought by Diamond Comics this morning."
And then there was one.
There are many theories and much to blame for he state of the market to this day, but one of the most damaging was Marvel's act in trying to be its own exclusive distributor of its comics.
Stephen Churay wrote:
| ... read an interesting article from a couple of years ago where one of our favorite people, Jim Shooter, commented on the end of newsstand comics... |
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Jim Shooter is correct on this matter in my view.
Retailers who fear a newsstand market are idiots, and the major comics publishers giving up on that market and putting all eggs in one basket were/are equally as idiotic.
Jim Shooter: (From the linked article):
"...The Newsstand market, with its many tens of thousands of outlets (around 75,000, I think) served by the 400+ ID Wholesalers in North America was continually bringing in new readers. Some of them became enthusiasts and found their way to the comics shops. But new newsstand buyers kept turning up to replace them...
...The newsstand cast a wide net. It funneled wannabe collectors into the comics shops."
I have been preaching this for years and years: The newsstand market cultivated customers for the Direct Market. Hardly being competition to comics shops, it was our fuel!
Most all of us from my generation on back were introduced to comics from seeing them at grocery stores, drug stores, and other outlets that sold periodicals on a newsstand. Comics were designed originally as cheap, disposable entertainment that mothers bought to keep their children content as they shopped. Most of those kids wouldn't grow up to be hardcore comics collectors, but they were exposed to comics. And those that would become collectors would discover comics shops. Those are customers we retailers would not have likely gained had it not been for the exposure of the newsstand to the general population.
The outlets for newsstand comics was never, and would never hurt the comics shops by and large because the benefits outweigh any negatives. Grocery stores and convenience stores don't want to be a full-fledged comic book provider. Those retailers just wanted a rack of cheap comics to sell to the average kid coming in with their parents. Comics shops benefited from the arrangement, because hardcore fans want a retailer that specializes in comics.
Newsstands were great for the casual reader, and a starting point for those that would become true fans, and a fueling ground for the comics shops, providing us with new customers who would discover the specialty shops that would cater to the comics fan.
Jim Shooter:
"... In a way, the spotty, unreliable, inconsistent nature of newsstand distribution was a good thing, because someone who just had to have every issue was more or less forced to seek out a comics shop...."
Exactly!
Shooter's comments validate what I have told people over the years. To me, it makes common sense. Sadly, though, short-sighted and greedy publishers and retailers screwed things up for everyone. Publishers loved the fact that a sold comic through the Direct Market was non-returnable (as a rule), and in the 1990s' convinced themselves that they didn't need the uncertainty of newsstand sales.
How these people in charge can be so narrow-minded and short-sighted is beyond me. Sadly, it's a problem with far too many companies, not just the comics industry. Nobody in charge seems to consider the future anymore. It's all about making a quick buck, and screw tomorrow.
My opinion is there needs to be a break from a single distributor in the Direct Market. There needs to be an effort to get comics back out on the newsstand (if the newsstand will have them anymore). There needs to be a change in format. I've discussed such at this link: Shape of The Future.
And, yes, comics publishers and retailers need to reach out to kids again.
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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 03 December 2014 at 5:26am | IP Logged | 8
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I will say that Shooter is exactly right about kids and comics. My first
comic to read on a regular basis WAS G.I.Joe. After a couple of
months of newsstand buying, I got a subscription. But in that time I
started picking up Transformers off the stand. Then something
happened, I saw an Iron Man cover that was very cool. It was the
Secret Wars II crossover issue.
The next day, I heard about a place that sold only comics. For a ten
year old boy, it was like going to Meca.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132538
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| Posted: 03 December 2014 at 5:47am | IP Logged | 9
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Retailers who fear a newsstand market are idiots...••• And that, right there, is why Matt Hawes is one of the GOOD ones!!
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Brian J Nelson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 August 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 365
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| Posted: 03 December 2014 at 10:59am | IP Logged | 10
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"My opinion is there needs to be a break from a single distributor in the Direct Market. There needs to be an effort to get comics back out on the newsstand (if the newsstand will have them anymore). There needs to be a change in format. "
I would agree with you, except newsstands themselves are dying. They don't exist on the corners across america as they once did. Magazine shelves in convenience stores have been removed for more high margin items with a faster turnover. Grocery stores that still have their shelves have shrunk from an entire aisle to a couple of meters in width. Mall bookstores have closed across the nation, taking their periodical shelves and spinner racks with them.
I don't think the issue is that comic companies don't want to be on the newsstand, but rather the retailer doesn't want to sacrifice the space. It tough to find even a Time or Newsweek because they would take space away from US Weekly or Style.
Print is dying and it is the public that is unplugging the respirator.
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Craig Markley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03 December 2014 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 11
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Many of the local mom & pop groceries are gone too.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 03 December 2014 at 12:26pm | IP Logged | 12
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I don't think the issue is that comic companies don't want to be on the newsstand...••• When they left the newsstand they did so voluntarily, and with sneers on their faces. Greed was the driving force. "Let's do as little work as possible to make a lot of money." I was there, protesting, voice crying in the wilderness as usual.
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