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Jason Czeskleba Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 30 April 2004 Posts: 4629
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Posted: 12 November 2020 at 8:15pm | IP Logged | 1
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John Wickett wrote:
I would also lay some of the blame on Biden. |
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I don't think there's any reasonable argument for laying any blame upon Biden. To my knowledge, no presidential candidate in history has waited until all the vote counts are certified to declare victory. That is a ridiculous standard to expect. Yes, the moderator used that term, but Biden did use it not in his reply, and it's clear that his intent was to say that he would wait until the counting was completed to such a point that the winner was clear. Because this is the standard that everyone uses and has used in every previous election. And Biden did in fact do this. Unlike Trump, he did not declare victory on election night, nor in the intervening days when counting was proceeding. He waited and only did so when the initial counts had mathematically eliminated any chance that Trump could win. The notion that he should be held to some sort of different, more extreme standard than every candidate in every previous election is just plain silly.
Republican behavior now is cynical political calculus. They know that if they openly acknowledge that Biden is the winner, they will be at risk of criticism (and future primary challenges) on the basis that they were insufficiently loyal to Trump. Simply saying that Trump has a right to challenge the results without also acknowledging that Biden clearly appears to be the winner gives credence to Trump's baseless claims that the election has been stolen from him. In doing this, they do in fact seriously undermine faith in the electoral process for their own political gain. There's no ethical or moral justification for that.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 12 November 2020 at 9:06pm
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31606
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Posted: 12 November 2020 at 8:19pm | IP Logged | 2
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To my knowledge, no presidential candidate in history has waited until all the vote counts are certified to declare victory.
*******
Trump sure as hell didn't do so. Of course, he doesn't have to do what everyone else does because he's Donald Jesus Trump.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 8166
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Posted: 12 November 2020 at 8:23pm | IP Logged | 3
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I have to admit that I am sick & tired of seeing people dismiss the words of this government as jokes - only for them to turn out to be the truth. Pompeo was not joking. If he was, it shows how sick they are. But he was not joking.
Trump will run in 2024 - amongst his supporters he has a 97% approval rating. He will also not let his age be a factor. Yes he has been calling out Biden for his age, but we know that what he says about someone, he does not apply to himself.
So, Biden @ 77 is a threat, Trump @ 78? He will be the fittest. Most cognitive 78 year old the world has ever seen. Because, Trump.
Anecdotes do not make evidence. There have been so many anecdotes that have been portrayed as evidence that I am sick of seeing them A ‘nurse’ posts about how Covid is a myth - only to be exposed as working in the hospital kitchen, someone posts about fixing ballets, only to exposed as having nothing to do with the 2020 election.
I asked for verified evidence, I saw none. I saw accusations that should be looked @, but not to a degree that would change the outcome.
Trump needs to stand aside, instead he is placing people in key positions in an attempt to cripple the next government of the USA.
Paraphrasing his own words - he’s a traitor, & we know what used to happen to traitors.
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Kevin Brown Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 31 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 9104
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Posted: 12 November 2020 at 10:26pm | IP Logged | 4
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Not much of a reader, Kevin?
***************
Gee, just like Pompeo, I was clearly joking....
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 8166
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Posted: 13 November 2020 at 1:15am | IP Logged | 5
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& the DHS calls this the most secure election in US history.
So let’s just end that discussion now shall we, & give Biden access now.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 8166
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Posted: 13 November 2020 at 10:27am | IP Logged | 6
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Further, it looks like the ‘claims’ of dead people voting are also proving false.
So, I’m back to my earlier list. Anyone have any verified evidence of voter fraud? Anyone? Bueller?
Nope, didn’t think so
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John Wickett Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 July 2016 Location: United States Posts: 847
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Posted: 13 November 2020 at 10:58am | IP Logged | 7
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James, Jason & Brian-
You're 100% right about previous presidents and previous elections. This year is different. Consider the context of the question. We're in the middle of a pandemic, most states are moving to mail-in ballots (that have to be manually sorted) for the first time, and there were widespread expectations that the postal service could experience problems handling the volume of ballots.
So we knew going into this election that because of those differences, ballot counting would be slower than normal; that we might not know the outcome of the election on election night; and that people would be impatient if the process dragged on for several days.
Chris Wallace was asking both candidates how they would handle the delays, and what they would tell their supporters to ensure the public remained calm while the process plays out.
Biden understood that results would not be certified until December, but that is the commitment he made under exceptional circumstances.
The purpose of declaring victory now is to put pressure on Trump to concede. So Biden is helping to create the tension that is leading to the public's perception of a crisis.
Biden could easily have adopted a different narrative such as: "it looks like we won the election. We will wait until the vote is certified to declare victory, but in anticipation of that, we have begun to assemble a transition team, etc."
They are both at fault, along with conservative media pundits who are pushing left wing conspiracy theories, and left-wing journalists who suggest that a coup is underway.
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Tim O Neill Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10955
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Posted: 13 November 2020 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 8
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John W, you can't just come here and post lies like this.
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Rick Senger Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 9769
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Posted: 13 November 2020 at 11:18am | IP Logged | 9
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John Wickett, welcome to the wonderful world of ignore.
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 16208
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Posted: 13 November 2020 at 11:37am | IP Logged | 10
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The purpose of declaring victory now is to put pressure on Trump to concede. So Biden is helping to create the tension that is leading to the public's perception of a crisis. -------------------------- Please be sensible.
Biden waited patiently until there was a consensus of who won the election. Media outlets have gone out of the way to err on the side of caution. CNN, for example, went out of their way to not call Arizona for days and days and days, even though the writing was on the wall. They still haven't called Georgia, even though Biden is 14,000 ahead with 99% of votes counted. They didn't want to make any mistakes. They waited much longer than normal to call a winner.
Everyone accepts that Trump has lost this election. The media. Republican Senators. World leaders. Reportedly even Trump himself has privately accepted he has lost.
Yet in public Trump puts on a show against all reason and facts to say that he is the winner....by a big margin... if you count the legal votes.
These are all false things. The media reporting Biden as the winner is a true thing. Yet it's Biden and the media that are creating the false perception?
There is no reason at all to block Biden from intelligence reports; to withhold messages from world leaders expressly sent to him; to withhold funds promised by law for a transition of government.
Trump firing people in key positions, such as the head of the FBI and senior defence officials like Mark Esper, is not a conspiracy theory. It is objective and undeniable fact.
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Mark Haslett Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6921
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Posted: 13 November 2020 at 11:47am | IP Logged | 11
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John: They are both at fault, along with conservative media pundits who are pushing left wing conspiracy theories, and left-wing journalists who suggest that a coup is underway.
**
You left out the crystals. There is a lot of bad crystal energy. On both sides.
Plus Mercury was in retrograde not too long ago. Of course, that's not Biden's fault, but he did decline to mention it which is suspicious.
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Philippe Negrin Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 01 August 2007 Location: France Posts: 2643
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Posted: 13 November 2020 at 11:59am | IP Logged | 12
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When does Trump have to leave the White House ? When does he stop being paid ? When does his staff stop being paid ? If he doesn't leave the White House, what can be done ? (Real questions )
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