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Rodrigo castellanos
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2012
Location: Uruguay
Posts: 1560
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| Posted: 27 May 2022 at 9:21am | IP Logged | 1
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The thing I'm seeing (again, from the outside and although I'm very familiar with your culture and your country it's obviously not the same as actually living there) is that whenever some horrific thing like this happens the Democrats tell you "Vote Blue so this doesn't happen again".
And you guys voted Blue, big time (as I would've done) and things never change. Democrats talk big, but are really not that different than Republicans when it comes to actually doing something.
Going back to the Steve Kerr speech, which I found very moving and intelligent, this is not a partisan issue.
If it's true that a great majority of Americans want stricter gun control, then there must be some recourse in your Constitution and laws that allows this issue (and others, like universal healthcare) to move forward.
The politicians won't do it. What you guys think of as "lobbying" (and in most other countries is called corruption) has tainted absolutely every possible political solution. And yes, they have most mainstream Democrats in their pockets too.
The solution has to come from the people, in some way. A national non-partisan conversation on the subject. If that's impossible, then you guys indeed have a weak democracy.
And now it was Texas, but that doesn't really matter in the long run. If Beto was elected and actually did something, you could still go to a neighboring state and get your assault weapons there.
It's got to be a National Conversation, but your system makes that incredibly hard.
So that's why the "Vote Blue" discourse seems shallow to me.
Edited by Rodrigo castellanos on 27 May 2022 at 9:42am
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 16207
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| Posted: 27 May 2022 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | 2
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I think we can give video games a pass as there is such an obvious distinction between reality and a video game.
Ditto outrageously unrealistic action/fantasy movies. I doubt anyone is watching James Bond and thinking about shooting people while skiing down a mountain.
I think where films and TV may have an influence is in providing what seem like plausible solutions to actual problems that certain people may encounter. I'm thinking something like American Beauty. Feeling emotionally disconnected from the world and in pain? Shoot someone and make the problem go away.
That said, I have zero proof for that and in no way advocate any kind of censoring of film/tv even if there was. Some kind of self-regulation from the industry wouldn't be amiss, but this really isn't the issue here.
The general problem is about the presence of guns in US civilian day-to-day life and the attitude of many toward guns.
There is a more specific problem which is a learned behaviour -- namely going to a school with guns to take out your issues with life on a bunch of innocents and going out in a blaze of glory. Maybe Columbine can be blamed for this, but what originally inspired it is unimportant compared with finding a solution. I don't think that will be easy unfortunately. Media focus on the victims and not the perpetrators probably helps, and I think the media have learned a lot with this.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134665
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| Posted: 27 May 2022 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | 3
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A “normal” gun can be used to wound and potentially kill six people. That fits the bill for a mass shooting by FBI definition.+++ In theory, the shooter has to be a pretty good marksman though. ••• A “marksman” is required only for specific targets. If the gunman is firing into a group of people—a classroom, for instance—just a random spread is all that’s needed.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 27 May 2022 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | 4
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I wish people had and would vote 'blue' big time. People who voted for Manchin and Sinema presumably did however, yet there is no guarantee either of them will actually support a tenth of the Democratic party platform. Those two almost might as well be Republicans in terms of their effect, but then you were are all saved by McCain and/or Flake, Collins or Murkowski a few times from worse pain in the past when the Republicans had 'the numbers'. As a Canadian I used to admire the ability to not vote support the party line, over the last while I'm not so sure it's as much the strength I thought it was (Profiles Of Courage etc.) as Achilles heel.
If there will have to be an off ramp from the 'dark siders' currently wagging the Republican party full force, for whatever moderates there still are, name-calling and stunts will be counter-productive to that. Show them 'true red' Republicans such as ol' Ronnie Reagan and the Lincoln sorts who have said, done and may still say things opposite of the current con jobbers, as well as Democrats who don't fit the stereotype absolutist social justice warrior visionaries. This is midgaard, middle earth, you will never get anywhere with always have to be right extreme lock-step types anymore than with the antics they are associated with.
Projecting extremes on people as pure evil is what a child or a fanatic does. All that angst and weeping and grand standing makes for a miserable society. So what am I promoting? It's not a simple extreme with walled off pure zealots, and it is informed, and informable, by experience not a treadmill of crisis to crisis management or quick fix unrealistic schemes.
Obviously access to the guns and the ferocity of certain kinds are the real problem. People with a needed rifle in a rural area or a handgun in a bad part of a city intend to be responsible and already are on board according to polls, even NRA member polls, for returning to tighter regulations. You can only lose them by appearing a zealot or name-calling and blaming fanatic and thus not trustworthy. Show trust get trust? Show where they have been conned, not as a gotcha, I win you lose, but as a neighbor with a shared stake in a community together reaching out.
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 27 May 2022 at 5:42pm
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James Johnson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 2223
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| Posted: 27 May 2022 at 6:11pm | IP Logged | 5
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As much as Texans despise the "Fed'ral Guvmit", it was the feds that took down the shooter.
So hopefully we'll stop hearing stories on how tough the big, bad Texas law enforcement are.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 27 May 2022 at 6:16pm | IP Logged | 6
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I've heard the "we take care of our own" thing a number of times from that area and I think Ted Cruz swanning off while there was a power crisis during a big freeze event that killed Texans ought to have put the nail in the coffin of that! Nothing says you've been duped quite like the super-yachting type missing in action that you were duped into putting your trust and loyalty into.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14911
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| Posted: 27 May 2022 at 6:51pm | IP Logged | 7
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So Texas police officers are unable or unwilling to do anything for an hour until they get backup from a tactical Border Patrol unit, and people are still arguing that the solution is to give teachers who aren’t trained to regularly deal with these situations guns?
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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3839
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| Posted: 27 May 2022 at 7:03pm | IP Logged | 8
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Rebecca wrote:
| "we take care of our own" |
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I like to keep the below quote handy, since it represents the complete hollowness at the center of the MAGA mindset - from the mayor of a small Texas town named Colorado City, during the power grid failure. He resigned a couple of days later. All spelling sic.
Tim Boyd wrote:
| No one owes you are your family anything; nor is it the local government’s responsibility to support you during trying times like this! Sink or swim it’s your choice! The City and County, along with power providers or any other service owes you NOTHING! I’m sick and tired of people looking for a damn handout! If you have no water you deal without and think outside of the box to survive and supply water to your family. If you are sitting at home in the cold because you have no power and are sitting there waiting for someone to come rescue you because your lazy is direct result of your raising! Only the strong will survive and the weak will parish. |
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Welcome to Texas! Don't let the coffin slam on your way down!
Edited by Dave Kopperman on 27 May 2022 at 7:03pm
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 27 May 2022 at 8:18pm | IP Logged | 9
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It helps to have a bit of a taste for gallows humor sometimes.
In case it might be of use to anyone, here is the full actual text of the letter as signed by Ronald Reagan lobbying lawmakers to support "a ban" on "military-style assault weapons", down to the source which is "domestic manufacture"!
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May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives:
We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assault weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 27 May 2022 at 8:19pm
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4939
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| Posted: 27 May 2022 at 9:21pm | IP Logged | 10
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Just read CEO Wayne LaPierre is on stage at NRA convention saying in response to the shootings in Uvalde that the country needs to "fully fund" police and school security.
He said we should fix mental health system; "We need to put violent felons in prisons where they belong." Empty platitudes that will solve nothing. I'M DISGUSTED.
-C!
Edited by Charles Valderrama on 27 May 2022 at 9:24pm
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John Wickett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 915
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| Posted: 27 May 2022 at 11:49pm | IP Logged | 11
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The Reagan letter only addressed bans on importing and manufacturing assault weapons. The version of the law that passed also banned possession of assault weapons, but only weapons manufactured after the date when the law was passed. The legislation failed to address assault weapons that were already in circulation. If the ban had any impact it was marginal at best. The studies are contradictory and inconclusive.
Now there are millions more assault rifles in circulation. For a new ban to have a major impact, I believe it would have to include some measure to reduce the number of existing weapons that are out there, and that is a huge problem. I could envision a ban similar to the '94 ban being passed again, but I think a law that requires people to turn over firearms they legally purchased is a political impossibility.
Having said that, and trying to look at the issue pragmatically, in addition to an assault weapon ban, existing gun laws that govern who can purchase a firearm have to be updated. I am horrified by the fact the Uvalde shooter legally purchased these weapons on his 18th birthday. What background check could possibly reveal that a kid who hasn't even graduated from HS yet is responsible enough to own those weapons?
With regard to violent entertainment, especially video games, I do think there's a connection, but maybe not in the way that's been suggested. Just my opinion, but I think the popularity of first person shooter games has helped to also popularize ownership of real-life weapons, especially among young people. I've never owned a gun, so my kids weren't raised around them. But my 22 year old son is a gun enthusiast, and has extensive gun and ammo knowledge that he either gained from video games, and other entertainment, or was inspired to research because of his love of the games. And as soon as he got his own place, he went out and bought a gun he had admired for a long time.
Similarly, I've got 7 employees who are men between the ages of 22 and 26. Three are gamers. Two of the three have purchased AR-15s (one has several different assault rifles). Of the four who are not gamers, none own guns.
Of course these are just anecdotal examples, but again, I'm only stating my opinion, and they have influenced my thoughts on the subject. So maybe video games don't make it more likely that a person will decide to shoot up a school, but I think the popularity of violent entertainment has directly influenced the number of guns that are available when someone does make that unfortunate decision.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134665
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| Posted: 28 May 2022 at 12:24am | IP Logged | 12
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I’m disappointed that the news media is putting so much emphasis on what is perceived as incompetent (in)action by the local police. This is just handing the NRA the excuse that the fault lay not with the guns but with those officers.
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