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Michael Roberts
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Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09 May 2025 at 7:46pm | IP Logged | 1
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Given that I’m not a believer, I’m not sure what hoop you are referring to. These are the discussions in critical (read: secular academic) scholarship.
QUOTE:
| I love the way Believers jump thru hoops to make a document written thousands of years ago reflect Modern Times |
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Making a document written thousands of years ago reflect Modern Times applies to both believers trying to justify the Bible and non-believers trying to criticize it. Using the clobber passages as some sort of gotcha for the incompatibility of Christian beliefs and homosexuality is trying to apply modern concepts of sexual orientation to ancient Hebrew ideas of sex roles. It’s more useful to understand that the Bible was written by people in a specific historical cultural context and not some sort of divine book from Heaven.
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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 09 May 2025 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | 2
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JB wrote:
| I find myself wondering if the Cardinals chose an American BECAUSE of the Anti-Christ in the White House. |
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I have a cynical reading of it along the lines of why FIFA has given hosting the World Cup to the USA more than once in the last 30 years, despite 'soccer' not being that big in the US... They want to grow into that market!
Edited by Peter Martin on 09 May 2025 at 8:25pm
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Michael Roberts
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 09 May 2025 at 8:39pm | IP Logged | 3
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I have a cynical reading of it along the lines of why FIFA has given hosting the World Cup to the USA more than once in the last 30 years, despite 'soccer' not being that big in the US... They want to grow into that market!
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Wrong Pope if that were the case. While US Catholics are kinda split down the middle between progressive and conservatives, the clergy and regular attendees are growing more conservative and MAGA Catholics are a thing. A pro-immigrant Pope who has been critical of Trump and Vance is the opposite of that.
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David Miller
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 09 May 2025 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | 4
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Michael Roberts wrote:
| Especially with regard to the Old Testament, Jesuits teachers will be the first to tell you that not everything is meant to be read literally and the historical context that the Scripture was written does matter. |
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I went to a Jesuit high school. They carefully explained how 99% of the Bible and Catholicism was utter irrational bullshit, while reserving a 1% that was true true true despite its complete defiance of the intellectual rigor the Jesuits otherwise encouraged. Even though vast swaths of the Book of Genesis were waved away as metaphorical, we were taught the Earth was indeed created in six literal days.
As a result, I'm surprised whenever I encounter a Catholic who claims to believe any of it.
Still, despite believing none of Catholicism, I find the Protestant faiths to be even more deluded. Like, if one is going to be a religious fanatic, it should be in the One True Church.
When my nephew asked me to be his confirmation sponsor, I braced myself for a difficult conversation about why I wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't. I asked him why he wanted to be a confirmed Catholic, and he replied that he didn't; he identified as an atheist and was obediently enduring a meaningless social ritual to placate his parents. Under those circumstances, I could hardly refuse.
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Peter Martin
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: 10 May 2025 at 2:06am | IP Logged | 5
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QUOTE:
| I find the Protestant faiths to be even more deluded. Like, if one is going to be a religious fanatic, it should be in the One True Church. |
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The church of Zeus?
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David Miller
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 10 May 2025 at 2:17am | IP Logged | 6
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Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
IYKYK
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Peter Martin
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| Posted: 10 May 2025 at 2:51am | IP Logged | 7
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Shhh, the Old Ones are listening!
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Mark Haslett
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Joined: 19 April 2004
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| Posted: 10 May 2025 at 3:34am | IP Logged | 8
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Michael: While US Catholics are kinda split down the middle between progressive and conservatives, the clergy and regular attendees are growing more conservative and MAGA Catholics are a thing. A pro-immigrant Pope who has been critical of Trump and Vance is the opposite of that.
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My Catholic relatives are hard core MAGA and believe there's a legit controversy over who the real Pope is. The criminal/mobster Opus Dei cult within the Church is the most healthy remnant of the Nazi-supporting wing and it is more powerful than ever. A pro-immigrant Pope is a welcome thing to see at this moment, but there is deep trouble within the Church that should worry anyone who worries about the impact of Catholicism on the world.
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Brian Miller
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Joined: 28 July 2004
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| Posted: 10 May 2025 at 11:11am | IP Logged | 9
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Who do they think the real pope is? Trump?
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Mark Haslett
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| Posted: 10 May 2025 at 3:31pm | IP Logged | 10
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Brian: Who do they think the real pope is? Trump?
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Some Latin-Mass loving Cardinal whose claim to leadership involves arcane
arguments I could not follow.
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Brian ONeill
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Joined: 04 July 2024
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| Posted: 10 May 2025 at 4:34pm | IP Logged | 11
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The 'average' Catholic in America never heard of the controversy about Opus Dei until 'The Da Vinci Code.
Edited by Brian ONeill on 10 May 2025 at 4:35pm
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