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Topic: Phoenix — Chris’ Incredible Idea Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

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Posted: 30 December 2025 at 2:39pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Found this elsewhere:

“Claremont had one fantastic idea...Phoenix...and one incredible plotline....and most of that with Byrne...and he rode it for years.”

Time for a history lesson, again.

Viewed thru the lens of all that came after, it’s hard to grasp those long ago moments that turned Jean Grey into Phoenix. Originally there was nothing more going on than Chris and Dave wanting to boost her powers, to which end they put her in a space shuttle and flew her thru the same cosmic rays that had granted their powers to the Fantastic Four (TAK TAK TAK). This came on the heels of Marvel floundering around for a few years trying to figure out what to DO with her. (Hands up if you remember that it was Jean who was intended to be Ms. Marvel…?)

Thing is, once Chris had this Jean+ in his grasp, he kept pushing her. Although she was not, at that point, officially a member of the team (having quit in UNCANNY X-MEN 94), by the time I arrived Chris was well on his way to turning the X-Men into guest stars in their own book.

I grumbled about this, and one day Steve Grant—not Chris—made what was then a radical suggestion: turn her into a villain.

I didn’t like the idea, but it would allow Chris to have full reign with Phoenix without diminishing the X-Men. So we set off on that course, with me suggesting we use the nearly forgotten Mastermind as the catalyst. Jean was slowly twisted to darker and darker intent, until she burst forth as a full fledged badguy.

As originally plotted, one of the ways this was to manifest as having her destroy a Shi’ar battleship, but as I worked on it, I came to see that action was not really enough—especially since it was technically self-defense. So I had her consume a star and in the process destroy its family of planets.

We proceeded from that point, until Shooter’s whim of iron kicked in. He’d been briefed on what we were doing, but one day he came into the office demanding that all actions generate CONSEQUENCES. Phoenix, he declared, was to be taken to a “prison asteroid” to be “horribly tortured for all eternity.”

My response: f**k that, I’d rather kill her.” Which is what we did.

The rest is history.

Phoenix, as you can see, was not the result of any individual’s Eureka moment. As with so many characters, it was a cumulative process.

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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 30 December 2025 at 3:30pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

"As originally plotted, one of the ways this was to manifest as having her destroy a Shi’ar battleship, but as I worked on it, I came to see that action was not really enough—especially since it was technically self-defense."

--

This reminds me of when you first mentioned during the interview in PHOENIX: THE UNTOLD STORY that your idea was for Dark Phoenix to have no thought baloons, since she should be now seen as a primal being, and I thought that was brilliant. The battleship scene was so diminished by all of the expositional monologue. 

"Scratch one propulsion nacelle!" doesn't sound very evil, and it's borderline silly.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 30 December 2025 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Steve Grant...! Why did you suggest that...?!! Argh!


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Michael Penn
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Posted: 30 December 2025 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

> and one incredible plotline <

Even the Mr. Claremont first scripted Phoenix announcing her(it?)self could be in retrospect seen as part of an overarching plotline from the get-go... and yet... untrue.

A warning not to read the past with the future's eyes.
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 30 December 2025 at 4:23pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Yes, no way it was all Chris' plotline and none of it, evidently, was pre-planned at all. 

The fantastic idea does go back to that frequent comic thing of the point of creation ...plusallthebitsthatcomeafterit. Frequently the latter carries at least as much weight as that first spark of creation. But there can be only one first spark of creation. Was that first point a Chris thing purely or a Chris+ Dave thing? Or is that not actually the point of creation and the true creators were Stan and Jack?
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Steven Myers
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Posted: 30 December 2025 at 6:37pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I thought Chris' standout ability was his writing of female characters as important individuals, not as the token and less important team members they were too often treated as in those days. And even here, I'm not trying to claim Chris was the only one who did this, but he was the most successful. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 30 December 2025 at 7:21pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I thought Chris' standout ability was his writing of female characters as important individuals, not as the token and less important team members they were too often treated as in those days. And even here, I'm not trying to claim Chris was the only one who did this, but he was the most successful.

•••

Insulting. And not just to me.

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Phil Southern
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Posted: 31 December 2025 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

JB said: "(Hands up if you remember that it was Jean who was intended to be Ms. Marvel…?)"
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This is an entirely new piece of information for me--how far into the planning was Marvel Girl becoming Ms. Marvel? 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 31 December 2025 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

It was early days of the Ms Marvel name. A logical jump, really.
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