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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 8611
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| Posted: 31 July 2026 at 8:22am | IP Logged | 1
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Murder usually being a crime of passion, he reasoned the defendant was not likely to be a repeat offender. --------------------------------- What a load of tosh. What happens the next time passion gets raised to that level through circumstances?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 136751
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| Posted: 31 July 2026 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 2
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The point of the argument was that passions are not likely to reach that level in the same individual. Most crimes of passion are specific to the time, place and circumstances, as well as the people involved. A man who snaps and murders his wife is not likely to become a serial killer. It’s a precarious point, especially in today’s America, where firearms are so freely available.
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 13312
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| Posted: 31 July 2026 at 10:15am | IP Logged | 3
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Homicide recidivism in the United States is ~1% to 2%.
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Doug Centers Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 February 2014 Location: United States Posts: 5805
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| Posted: 31 July 2026 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 4
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My feelings on the death penalty seem to seesaw over the years. Let them serve out a life sentence and be haunted by their crimes every night as they try to sleep or the death penalty and give the family of the deceased closure .
The problem with the former is that there will of course will be the unrepentant, and the latter rarely happens "swiftly" and the cases of wrongful convictions.
As for the death penalty being a deterrent? According to the Death Penalty Information Center death penalty states average 4.7 murders per 100,000 residents while non-death penalty states average 3.8.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 136751
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| Posted: 31 July 2026 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 5
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As someone once said, the death penalty does serve as a deterrent. That guy won’t do it again.
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Evan S. Kurtz Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 04 July 2022 Location: Canada Posts: 388
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| Posted: 31 July 2026 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | 6
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When I was in 8th grade, one of our teachers invited the class to have a debate on the death penalty. He first asked if anyone opposed the death penalty, and my raised hand was the one and only. “But don’t worry,” he assured me, “even though I’m actually for the death penalty, I’ll debate the topic on your side.”
I did take some consolation when the topic came up again my senior year, and I was no longer alone in being opposed to it.
My reasoning for opposing it has evolved as I’ve aged. I believe human life is so precious and miraculous that it must be protected at all costs. I believe nobody should have the right to kill another human being, even if that person did the unthinkable. Either all human life is precious, or none of it is. The only caveat I’ll make is that if your life is in imminent danger, it’s understandable that you do whatever you must in order to protect yourself, even if that means killing your aggressor.
But I also don’t believe in the punishment model as a form of consequence. I believe the main goal of our prison system should be rehabilitation with as minimal recidivism as possible. Some people are too broken, too far gone, to ever walk freely amongst us again. But they didn’t choose the circumstances that scarred them so badly. Locking those people up is as much about protecting society from their erratic actions as it is about protecting them from themselves.
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 13312
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| Posted: 31 July 2026 at 2:23pm | IP Logged | 7
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...said Frodo... "I do not feel any pity for Gollum. ... He deserves death."
"Deserves it! I dare say he does. Many that live deserve death and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be so eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the wise cannot see all ends."
[J.R.R. Tolkien, The Shadow of the Past, The Fellowship of the Ring]
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 8611
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| Posted: 31 July 2026 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | 8
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The point of the argument was that passions are not likely to reach that level in the same individual. Most crimes of passion are specific to the time, place and circumstances, as well as the people involved. A man who snaps and murders his wife is not likely to become a serial killer. —————- I get that. But, one might argue that should those circumstances occur again to that individual - say a partner saying they are leaving them - which seems to cause a crazy amount of crimes of passion - what do we think that person will do again? It’s a bit late once it happens.
I’m coming at this from someone who thinks the death penalty is wrong, but prison is correct.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 136751
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| Posted: 31 July 2026 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 9
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Long time ago I read a short story called “To See the Invisible Man”. I no longer remember the finer point, but the overall thrust was that it was set in a future where convicted felons were no longer imprisoned. Instead they were marked with a temporary (length of their sentences) and turned loose. It was illegal to interact with them in any way. I need to find that story…
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 32154
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| Posted: 31 July 2026 at 3:14pm | IP Logged | 10
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Here you go
https://www.scribd.com/document/140169435/Silverberg-Robert- To-See- the-Invisible-Man
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 136751
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| Posted: 31 July 2026 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 11
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Thanks, Brian.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 32154
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| Posted: 31 July 2026 at 6:38pm | IP Logged | 12
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If you had told 12-year-old Brian that one day John Byrne would say “thanks” to him, he’d say you’re out of your mind and a damn liar.
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