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Topic: A New "Byrne Challenge" (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Joe Mayer
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Joined: 24 January 2005
Posts: 1397
Posted: 26 September 2005 at 2:05pm | IP Logged | 1  

I can see where you are coming from Brian.  Comic books, for many of us, are a periodical and should come out, oh I don't know, periodically.  But many others have gone from looking at them just as a comic book and instead as art.  For some it is sequenced art that tells a story. I think that does help to drive the mentality.  They think they are buying a Picasso and would rather wait an extra month past the due date than have the gallery substitute a Harry Bahlz so that it could be on time.

Personally, I miss the days when comics were just comics.  I do admit that I don't let a late book affect my own buying habits though, because I don't buy my comics "on time".  I have no clue if a comic I am buying came ut on time or not.

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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 2  

The chief problem with the "growing roses" nonsense, aside from it being an excuse for unproffesional behavior (which far too many fans and retailers have been so f*cking stupid they have actually accepted), and being an insult to everyone who managed, somehow, to produce quality product on a regular schedule -- it simply does not work as an appropriate metaphor. Sure, go grow roses. Roses are lovely. The world would be a drab and sad place, without 'em. But we don't happen to be in the business of growing roses. We're growing apples. Good ol' solid, dependable apples. And you just can't make good apple pie with roses.
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 3  

I understand that sometimes deadlines aren't going to be met . It's unavoidable,
No matter what anyone says. No matter how good some artists are at keeping deadlines . Sometimes other artist miss them.
However that being said artist should be held accountable. Fans should keep things in perspective thou. There are other things more important in life then drawing comics.
(Not meeting a deadline because the artist can't stop playing Xbox isn't a good reason)
Artist should be honest about their limitations ,editors should hold the artists accountable. But they should handle  the sitituation  not by allowing it to happen repeatedly for now good reason.
As an editor if you know your team can't meet a monthly deadline then you give him a bi monthly or quarterly. If it happens that your artist misses a deadline for a valid reason then having fillin stories handy is a smart thing . It keeps the fans happy it keeps the money men happy.
In a perfect world there would be time enough for everything. But we don't live in perfect and sadliy too many freelancers don't have a professional attitude towards their own work.
Hit them in the pay check for missing a deadline without a good reason. They will learn to be more professional.

Artist who constantly miss deadlines listen to those who came before you. Set your own deadline a fuck up deadline that is ahead of the companies deadline.

 

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Leroy Douresseaux
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Joined: 29 April 2004
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | 4  

I wonder if part of the problem is that as time past many people stop thinking of comic books a periodicals and started thinking of them as books, so in their estimation, the books aren't due on a monthly basis and will be published when they're ready... whenever that will be.
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Paul Greer
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Joined: 18 August 2004
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | 5  

I would only agree that comic books could be treated like books when they are a complete story. Not a 22 page one of twelve. Put out a complete story as one collection and you can decide when you want to release it. But when you allow your comics to be incomplete stories from issue to issue it lends itself to the periodical format.

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John McMahon
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Joined: 21 September 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 581
Posted: 26 September 2005 at 3:04pm | IP Logged | 6  

 Brian Miller wrote:
Which is BS, John. If one title has to have fill-ins, than all titles should have the same apply to them.


Sigh.

This argument has played out here a dozen and one times before here, this year alone!

You have to weigh up the financial implications, long term and short, of each and every given situation.  If you believe that keeping an A list creative team on a book, at the expense of only 8 issues shipping a year, will make you more money than pumping out four issues by a fill-in team then that's the call you make.

But surely having four more issues by another team would make money!

Yes,  but you have to offset that against damage done to the brand (going from an A Team to a C Team creatively) and the possible reaction of your star creatvie team.  Now you can bitch and moan against those realities but they're still that - realities.

The best semi-recent example of this I can think of was the disasterous decision by DC/Wildstorm to stick a Peyer/Nguyen fill-in arc in the middle of the Millar/Quitely run on The Authority.

 John Byrne wrote:
We're growing apples. Good ol' solid, dependable apples


Fuck me that's a grim quote.

Edited by John McMahon on 26 September 2005 at 3:06pm
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Darragh Greene
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 3:38pm | IP Logged | 7  

I like apples!
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Eric Lund
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Joined: 15 April 2004
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | 8  

If "fans" didn't buy comics like crack addicts which they do now the industry would collapse and those hot artists wouldn't be allowed to float about... The onus is on the crack addict mentallity of buying 30 titles amonth when 95% of the stuff being produced is total shite!

The hype of a Miller or Jim Lee is the only thing keeping the sinking ship afloat...and both are producing work that is so sub-par as to be embarassing...

Hype and Events are all that is left....and the industry will go down with these things still in full force like the last drunk at a party that is long over...still reveling and cheering and blowing his streamer....thinking everyone is going to come back..

DC will produce Crisis after Crisis and M***** will produce House of M's or whatevers and they will be scooped up like chum in a river bed of piranha



Edited by Eric Lund on 26 September 2005 at 4:24pm
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Lance Hill
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Joined: 22 April 2005
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 4:54pm | IP Logged | 9  

I think that Marvel could do with bringing back inventory stories. Strong stand-alone stories that can be slotted into any format when they need them. These could be very flexible - a Spider-Man/Fantastic Four team-up inventory story could be slotted into Amazing Spider-Man or Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man or Fantastic Four etc.


 QUOTE:
Comics are serial fiction, intended to be put out monthly...


That's not true. Many comics are stand-alone and many more have never been intended to be put on a monthly schedule.
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Thanos Kollias
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Joined: 19 June 2004
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Posts: 5009
Posted: 26 September 2005 at 4:59pm | IP Logged | 10  

I don't remember Hitch being the most dependable artist of the world or producing any more work than now before he switched styles and became a more realistic version of Alan Davis instead of a mediocre (at first) or average (later on) Alan Davis clone.

He is just slow.

And, aside from the superstar artist, who else gets hurt by having a fill-in artist?
No one else.
The reader gets the project on time promised, the company makes more money faster, the writer (who I generally and arbitrarily consider not to be the heart of this particular problem) is OK, the fill-in artist gets a chance at some money, eve the trade paperback is there as well. And the quality doesn't need to fall at all.
If we could have Michael Golden, or Alan Davis, or John Cassaday, or George Perez or Stuart Immonen or John Byrne (with Millar? Yeah, right!) or Neal Adams, or Arthur Adams, or Mike MIgnola to fill in for Hitch in the Ultimates, do you think anyone would ever complain?
Why is fill-in instantly translated as crap?

It's the artists who are to blame and the editors for agreeing with this.
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Kevin Pierce
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | 11  

What the industry seems to forget it's the characters that are make the focal point not the talent, long after the talent has left the business the characters remains. M***L needs to fire those who can't keep deadlines and hire those who can. As many people who want to break into the business, there is always the next big talent coming over the horizon.



Edited by Kevin Pierce on 26 September 2005 at 5:09pm
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Thanos Kollias
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Joined: 19 June 2004
Location: Greece
Posts: 5009
Posted: 26 September 2005 at 5:12pm | IP Logged | 12  

Kevin, they have forgotten completely. Their adds recently read something like that:



"TV Show #1's writer Cat Catwell finally reveals us his vision of Superb-Man"

Who is the focus and the star in the phrase above?

And before anyone asks, it's not the same if John Byrne or Frank Miller or Grant Morrison or Alan Moore get a similar credit (minus the "vision" part) These guys are comic-book pros.....
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