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Lance Hill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2005
Posts: 991
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| Posted: 26 September 2005 at 5:25pm | IP Logged | 1
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In the case of a multi-part storyline, I think that a fill-in artist can disrupt the "flow" of a story, especially in a collected edition. I'd rather have a fill-in inventory story with a blurb at the beginning explaining what the dealio is.
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John McMahon
Byrne Robotics Member
Membership Revoked
Joined: 21 September 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 581
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| Posted: 26 September 2005 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | 2
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Kevin Pierce wrote:
| As many people who want to break into the business, there is always the next big talent coming over the horizon. |
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So your genius business plan is to sack the top tier creators whose
name on a known property will give you 80K+ sales a month and replace
them with you and your mates ?
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Jason Fulton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3938
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| Posted: 26 September 2005 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 3
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sales a month
Isnt the whole argument that they aren't 'able' to produce monthly books?
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6857
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| Posted: 26 September 2005 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | 4
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Kevin Pierce wrote:
| As many people who want to break into the business, there is always the next big talent coming over the horizon. |
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John McMahon:
So your genius business plan is to sack the top tier creators whose
name on a known property will give you 80K+ sales a month and replace
them with you and your mates ?
***
Care to connect those dots?
Speaking of "genius" business plans, sticking to a model that gets
excited about 80K+ sales is right up there with sticking your tongue in
a light socket.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134259
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| Posted: 26 September 2005 at 6:49pm | IP Logged | 5
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Comics are serial fiction, intended to be put out monthly...++++ That's not true. Many comics are stand-alone and many more have never been intended to be put on a monthly schedule. **** Let's not play these silly semantic games, okay? The kinds of "comics" being discussed in this thread have traditionally be periodicals, whether they came out 12 times a year, 8 times a year, 6 times a year, or 4 times a year. To use the fact that "many" comics are not intended to be periodicals is as useful to this debate as "proving" the porn industry does not exist because Walt Disney has never made a porn movie. One of the most wearisome things I have found on the internet is the tendency of some -- the reflex reaction of some, even -- to seek the exception to any statement. "The sun is bright in the sky," is greeted automatically with "Except on the other side of the earth, where it is night!" Waste of time, waste of energy, adds nothing to the discussion.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9366
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| Posted: 26 September 2005 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | 6
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When I first began reading comics seriously at the ripe old age of 10 or 11 I was a comic book fan i read alot of titles i absorbed all i could man those were the days. Some were shit most were little treasures. You see i began reading faithfully and buying when i discovered a mom and pop comic shoped . Their store was filled wall to wall with back issues everything from the 40's up to what had been being produced at the time which was in the early eighties. I had the good fortune of discovering the hot guys producing comics Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, John Romita Neal Adams and some young hotshot called John Byrne. Ahhh the pickens were great. As the years went buy i stopped being a comic fan and became a collector. Most of what i broguth was utter shit. I stoped buying comics for awhile. I've become a fan again but you know if i pick up two or three books in a two month time thats alot. Alot of crap is still being produced and alot of the guys i loved aren't doing work anymore. That young hotshot is now an old warhorse. Some say his older stuff is better. To the child in me remembering back his older stuff may always be better. Not due to anything by him but more to my remembering the joy of finding his work for the first time. In many ways he is vastly improved his work has gotten much better with time. He is a more skilled storyteller. There aren't many like him anymore. I may not look at John Byrne's work the same way i did as a child but you know I get to see him as one a the few final ties to a great age of comics. When these few great men retire what will we be left with.
Oh For F*cks sake now that i think about it. The kids of tomorrow who will they have? Who will be there to show them how it's suppose to be done.
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Leroy Douresseaux
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1657
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| Posted: 26 September 2005 at 7:38pm | IP Logged | 7
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Just as some people seem to no longer think of comics as periodicals, some seem to think that everything done before Alan Moore and Frank Miller showed us the light in 1986 was bad. One of those bad things from the past was monthly comics. Plenty of industry folks and fans think that a few issues of, say, sublime Millar/Hitch per year is far superior to 12 issues in a year of, say, "rushed" art by Andru or Swan... or even Byrne. That's open to debate.
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Mig Da Silva
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 900
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| Posted: 26 September 2005 at 7:50pm | IP Logged | 8
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Plenty.
Depends on the word plenty...
Are plenty, 1 million as they once were?
Are plenty half a million, as they once were?
Are plenty a quarter of a million as they once were?
Last time i checked Ultimates don't even sell that...
... Let's assume 50% of buying customers agree with Millar\Hitch delay divinity, that's what?
50 thousand?
Is that "plenty"?
Compared to what?
And we're assuming 50% of the people that buy the Ultimates do enjoy the delays and thus being masochists.
Not very likely, either.
Let's face it: 5 schmucks think it's cool and post it on the web. That's it. Everyone else is pissed and either stopped buying comics, or just buys them because there's nothing else or the stands. It's the delayed, regurgitated tales, or nothing.
Neither of these numbers, be it 5 or 50 thousand, are, though, plenty.
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John McMahon
Byrne Robotics Member
Membership Revoked
Joined: 21 September 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 581
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| Posted: 27 September 2005 at 2:10am | IP Logged | 9
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Mark Haslett wrote:
| Speaking of "genius" business plans, sticking to a
model that gets excited about 80K+ sales is right up there with
sticking your tongue in a light socket. |
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The alternative is 15K an issue with no real trade movement, so you take what you can get, you know ?
The first post of yours I replied to, and I apologise if I misread you,
seemed to be suggesting that these top selling creative teams should be
replaced by up and comers, which strikes me as financial suicide.
Marvel are quite good when it comes to giving indy creators a shot,
hell their #1 guy used to self-publish black'n'white crime
fiction! There are numerous lesser known creators working on
books for Marvel, it makes sense to start this next generation off
small so they can build an audience. Though I think Bendis'
started with Ultimate Spider-Man for Marvel, mind you he was going
great guns back then anyway, buzz around Powers was off the charts.
New Avengers is selling twice now what it was when it was Avengers, and
yeah that in turn is a 1/5 of what it was selling 15 years ago or
whatever but that's not the market we have now.
Little snippet from icv2 on the latest available US order figures -
Dollar sales of comics and graphic novels in comic
shops in August were up a healthy 18% over sales in the same month a
year ago -- aided perhaps by the fact that August had five comic
on-sale days (Wednesdays), though based on Diamond's invoicing
procedures the effect of the extra week is difficult to weigh and a
definitive answer on sales for this period may have to wait until next
month when the numbers for the entire third quarter are available. With
that caveat in mind, August figures look good--comic book sales
ballooned by a substantial 16%, while graphic novels increased their
dollar total by 26%.
http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/7537.html
Edited by John McMahon on 27 September 2005 at 2:14am
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Thanos Kollias
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2004
Location: Greece
Posts: 5009
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| Posted: 27 September 2005 at 2:33am | IP Logged | 10
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So, John, you think it is a good policy to lose money by not sticking to a monthly schedule? In the three years it takes them to put out 20 issues they could have gotten 36, so lots of money lost there....
Who on Earth would complain if Hitch was replaced by Davis for one issue of Ultimates? Except for Hitch, that is....
Edited by Thanos Kollias on 27 September 2005 at 2:42am
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John McMahon
Byrne Robotics Member
Membership Revoked
Joined: 21 September 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 581
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| Posted: 27 September 2005 at 3:06am | IP Logged | 11
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Millar might. Hitch might. People who read the Ultimates might.
To be fair, if you're talking about solicited "fill-in" issue(s) with
art by the likes of Davis then I don't think you're going to have a
problem. Of course artists of that calibre tend to be working on
their own projects and thus unavailable for that kind of fill-in work,
leaving the artists who are....and generally speaking they wouldn't be
considered on a par with the main creative team.
There are all kinds of variables (sales lost by issues not coming out,
sales lost from damaging the brand etc.) at play, with convincing
arguments to be made for both sides.
Personally, I pick up comics to read stories told by people whose work I enjoy, which is why I don't buy The Ultimates :)
I wonder how many comics we're talking about here anyway.
Ultimates. Seemed to be running fine till the problems with Bryan's SO.
Iron Man. Editorial fucked up big time in hiring an artist who
couldn't handle monthly work. If people on Newsarama could see
that months in advance, there's no reason why Marvel editorial
couldn't. I predict something similar with the current Ghost Ride
mini by the by.
Is that it for monthly ongoing books ? I think there may have
been a skip month for New Avengers but that double shipped this month.
Then you have minis....
Ultimate Secret. Screwed up because Bendis decided to add an extra
issue to a New Avenger arc illustrated by the US artist. This was dumb
and badly handled, I'm a big believer in not soliciting minis till
they're in the bag (for Marvel and DC anyway, respect the fiscal
concerns for smaller companies).
Daredevil Father. The EIC screwing up so badly obviously sends a
poor message about the company and to the people working under him.
Then there's the Kevin Smith nonsense. Really doesn't look like
all that much now that I look at it....probably find out I missed loads
though.
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Jeff Gillmer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1920
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| Posted: 27 September 2005 at 3:30am | IP Logged | 12
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In relation to buying "The Ultimates", I couldn't care less about someone named Bryan Hitch, his girlfriend, their baby or their pet llamas. None of that matters. If I were buying the book, and it's listed as a monthly, I want to be able to go to the store in July and pick up an issue, and in August, and in September, and so on. Listing the book as a monthly publication is a promise by the producing company to the buyer. If I go to the store in July and pick up issue 3, and it takes until December to have issue 4 released, then the company has broken the promise. If a book is supposed to be a 12 issue maxi-series, then the entire story should be in the drawer before the first issue is released. Writers and artists should have more respect for the buying public (you know, us...the one that puts money in their pockets) than to take an assignement they are not able to complete on time. Editors should have more respect for us than to promise a book that they know isn't ready. It's really that simple.
Do the people not living up to their responsibilites deserve our money?
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Topic Closed)
