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Topic: A New "Byrne Challenge" (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Ian Evans
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Joined: 12 September 2004
Posts: 2433
Posted: 26 September 2005 at 3:29am | IP Logged | 1  

Oh and hey, Charlie, welcome to the forum...look forward to many many posts of yours on the topic of comics and JBs work, which is of course what brought you to the forum in the first place
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Matthew Hansel
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Joined: 18 April 2004
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 8:13am | IP Logged | 2  

I really wish we could return to the days when the editors would just assign a story and make the talent turn it in and then put it in the drawer and when an issue needed to be sent to print, they pulled a few stories out of the drawer and viola, the next issue of Batman or Superman or whatever shipped (and I'd like to go back to the big 64 page books or 48 page whatever they were, when we got 3-4 stories per issue--even if it was twice quarterly and monthly during the summer).

I read an interview with Dick Sprang (or maybe it was Charlie Paris) a few years ago where he said that one of the Batman editors NEVER gave the talent a deadline that was LESS than two weeks before the ACTUAL deadline, so that talent that had a problem meeting the deadlines (Bill Finger to name but one), could actually finish the work ON TIME and nothing would ship LATE.

I say CONTINUITY BE DAMNED and let's just have STORIES that are "done in one".  Let the talent turn in work and let the publisher decide when to publish it.  This might be troublesome for some publishers though, since I understand that they seem to operate this year's company on next year's revenue.

Matthew Hansel
matthewphansel@mac.com

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Joe Zhang
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 8:51am | IP Logged | 3  

To say that an expecting father's worries about his young family's medical problems is not an excuse for his job obligations is indeed cold. But that's simply the truth. Maybe a employer would give a guy more time outside of his vacation and emergency leave, but such kindness is rare. It can be quite an inhuman economy we live in, but that's another discussion altogether.
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Rodrigo Baeza
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Joined: 26 April 2004
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 9:35am | IP Logged | 4  

Steve Jones:

<<Can someone tell me what Todd's exact quote is that refers to "growing roses" as I don't know and I can't find it on Google?>>

The quote originally appeared in Hero Illustrated #3, in 1993. I don't think the complete article's online anywhere, but I found this larger quote:

"We're growing roses, they're beautiful, they take awhile to make, but
they're beautiful! If you want me to squat something out, I can do it right here on the table. Let them [other publishers] get the crap out on time, we'll grow the roses!"

The quote is from a specific time and place. McFarlane pulled an excuse out of his ass to justify Image's lateness, but he had something of a point in that large parts of Marvel's and DC's output during the 90's were absolutely awful.

McFarlane didn't say that all the work of artists who've met deadlines during the past decades is automatically worse than that of artists who fail to meet their deadlines. Implying that McFarlane meant that (or worse, that he somehow "insulted" Kirby, Eisner, and others, when he wasn't even referring to their work) strikes me as a typical fanboyish oversimplification, based more on anger and indignation rather than on rational thought.

Rodrigo
http://rodrigobaeza.blog-city.com

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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 5  

McFarlane didn't say that all the work of artists who've met deadlines during the past decades is automatically worse than that of artists who fail to meet their deadlines. Implying that McFarlane meant that (or worse, that he somehow "insulted" Kirby, Eisner, and others, when he wasn't even referring to their work) strikes me as a typical fanboyish oversimplification, based more on anger and indignation rather than on rational thought.

****

"Let them (other publishers) get the crap out on time, we'll grow the roses!"

You're really going to have to explain to me how this statement can be taken as anything other than a broad condemnation of anyone who gets the work out on time. The very fact that McFarlane does not refer specifically to artists by name, either to underscore the poor quality of their work, or to excuse them from inclusion in his statement, means that everyone must be taken to be included in the statement. (If we assume the reverse, that everyone is excluded, then the statement becomes meaningless.)

This has nothing to do with time and place. This has everything to do with Todd shooting off his mouth again, without thinking. In the context of this statement, the very phrase "on time" is rendered a prejorative. To be "on time" is to be inferior to the "roses" being grown by the Toddler and his cronies at Image. This is not oversimplification. Rather, to see something other than this is to over complicate -- to read into the words positive meaning that is simply not present.

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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 9:48am | IP Logged | 6  

Are modern freelancers allowed to subcontract or "farm" out part of their work, such as backgrounds?

*****

Yes. In fact, some of the loudest champions of "creator's rights" in recent years have been the first to reinvent the studio system, and use uncredited assistants.

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Rodrigo Baeza
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 7  

John McMahon:

<<I'd be in the blame-the-editors camp myself - you don't hire certain artists for monthly series unless you know for sure you're going to be able to give them the lead time required.>>

I tend to agree, it's editors and publishers who have the power to choose freelancers who've already proved that they can meet deadlines. Also, in many cases it's the publisher who must be blamed for setting non-realistic schedules (as in the example of Dark Knight 2, which was scheduled in advance even though Miller had warned them that he wouldn't be able to finish the third issue by that time).

Rodrigo
http://rodrigobaeza.blog-city.com

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Dan Helpingstine
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 9:55am | IP Logged | 8  

Joe Zhang: "There is no such thing as paternity leave."

according to the Family Medical Leave Act there sure is...also, most companies offer just such a benefit over and above FMLA...

beside, i'm currently on paternity leave...

dan


Edited by Dan Helpingstine on 26 September 2005 at 10:00am
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 9:57am | IP Logged | 9  

Easily the most insane scheduling I have ever seen was when DC's Powers That Were came back from one of their "retreats" with the idea for the WORLD OF... miniseries. They wanted them to come out over a specific range of months, so they scheduled WORLD OF KRYPTON, the first of the series, retroactively. When I was handed the schedule, the plot for the first issue was already a month late!

(None of those issues shipped late, mind you.)

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Joe Mayer
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Joined: 24 January 2005
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 10:03am | IP Logged | 10  

This happens, curiously enough, because most people who work in offices out in the real world are not chasing deadlines.
*****

This is probably one of the most naive comments I have heard in a long time. 

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John McMahon
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Joined: 21 September 2004
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 11  

I got a chuckle out that myself, can't fault him though as he works in comics and not in the real world.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 10:13am | IP Logged | 12  

JB: This happens, curiously enough, because most people who work in offices out in the real world are not chasing deadlines.

++++

Joe Mayer: This is probably one of the most naive comments I have heard in a long time. 

****

Then I suggest you get out of the house more. The bulk of work done in most offices is simple drudgery, internal maintainace, paper pushing, call it what you will. In virtually all jobs, there are, indeed, deadlines to be chased -- but they do not form the greater percentage of time consumed. Hence my use of the word "most" (specially emboldened for your ease and comfort, above) in my original statement.

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