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Rodrigo Baeza Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 26 April 2004 Location: Chile Posts: 37
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 10:14am | IP Logged | 1
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<<"Let them (other publishers) get the crap out on time, we'll grow the roses!"
You're really going to have to explain to me how this statement can be taken as anything other than a broad condemnation of anyone who gets the work out on time.>>
Sure, he's referring to the comics that DC and Marvel were putting out at that time; I don't see anything in McFarlane's words that would extend the statement to anyone who's ever met a deadline in the whole history of comics. It's standard company hype, "our comics are better than theirs".
I don't think I'm trying to put a positive spin on McFarlane's words, I don't care much about him or his comics, and I already said it was an excuse he pulled out of his ass. Like you, I don't think it was a very good excuse. What I disagree with is in interpreting his words as a blanket condemnation of artists who meet their deadlines, I think this is putting words in McFarlane's mouth.
Rodrigo http://rodrigobaeza.blog-city.com
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Thomas Mets Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 05 September 2004 Location: United States Posts: 898
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 10:27am | IP Logged | 2
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Call me a cold-hearted monster, but that would be an
acceptable excuse only if it was Hitch's girlfriend drawing the Ultimates. Or
her pediatrician. There is no such thing as paternity-leave.
---------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------
My dad actually got a week off from his work when my youngest brother was born,
and that was more than fifteen years ago. Not going to mention anything else
about the above post, as a lot of others on the board have done it for me.
If I were the editor, I would
give Hitch the time off without detriment to his
professional reputation. On the other hand, I'd get someone else to draw
his books.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------
This may be a bad idea in the
long run. I honestly believe Hitch & Millar’s 25 issue run on the Ultimates
will remain in print in trade paperback form for a long time, as it’s the best
comic book Marvel’s published while I’ve been reading comics (although that’s
admittedly only about 9 or so years.) Switching artists in the middle of the
story may make it as unpleasant an experience as if an actor was switched in
the middle of a movie.
Personally, I don't care why. If the presses or distribution center
were in New Orleans,
I'd cut slack, but if it's late, I just lose interest.
Astonishing X-Men is the best X-Men book in decades...it ships
late, I've lost interest because it's late so I dropped it. Brubaker's Captain
America has been brilliant, but there were issues that shipped late and I
lost interest. Comics are serial fiction, intended to be put out
monthly...if that doesn't happen, I'm really not of the mind to care. My
part of the deal is that you (the publisher) keep me entertained on a month to
month basis, and I'll support you. You drop the ball, my interests drift
elsewhere.
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------
This is your right , although you
are admitting that you’re missing out on the best X-Men book in decades, and a “brilliant”
Captain America run.
Alright, since you all are so concerned about your favorite artist's
girl-friend's health issues. During the 70's and 80's, were there NO
writers or artists who had family crisis or personal health problems?
Sure there were. I don't have any specific examples, but one would have
to be naive as hell to believe that there weren't any. Yet somehow those
comics continued to be published on a monthly schedule.
I remember when there was a Superboy and the Legion issue that came out in
the late 70's featuring a gorgeous Starlin cover and I was surprised to find a
Swan reprint inside. There was an editorial from Al Milgrom on the inside
cover apologizing for the fact that he had just taken over the editing chores
and the first issue under his reign was a reprint due to a schedule
problem. THAT was a professional response to the problem.
I have my own response to late books. I don't buy them anymore.
I've quit many titles that I was really enjoying because I hated having to wait
for these so-called "professionals" to complete their CONTRACTED
work.
Added Red Sonja to that list yesterday
when I read a remark from the writer that he would rather the book be late than
rushed. Damn shame. Makes me wish the place I work for was as
relaxed as many of these comic companies. I would love to not have to
produce my work on time and work at whatever pace suited me on that particular
day. And still be revered and worshiped by my customers the way the
fanboys eat up the "roses". Hell, they might even make up excuses
for me, too.
------------------------------------------------
One problem with filling monthly
books with reprint material is that a lot of the fans already own the original,
or the work has been reprinted in some form. I would be really upset if a Marvel
Knights Spider-Man issue I paid three dollars for contained Peter David’s brilliant Commuter story, as I already
own the original.
Question: Are modern freelancers allowed to subcontract or "farm" out
part of their work, such as backgrounds? Does it have to be ghosted, with no
credit and no awareness from the editor? If the editor knows about it, must a
credit appear in the book and must the company split the page rate up
themselves, or can the freelancer do it?
Just a solution to a problem that might help freelancers, though I
understand many of them struggle to put food on the table as is (but think
about how much more you'd make overall with an on-time book!)
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------
This would help two freelancers. The star artist late with his work,
and someone breaking into the industry (who would probably get the job
of drawing backgrounds. ) I'd hope that the editor knows about it,
though.
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 10:28am | IP Logged | 3
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Dan, are you being paid while on paternity leave?
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Ian Evans Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 September 2004 Posts: 2433
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 4
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I got two weeks paid paternity leave this year.
I wasn't asked but then.
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Daniel Presedo Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 03 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 199
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 5
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Well in defense of the software office segment of the population, we work with deadlines ALL the time and are not allowed to miss them (very often). There are revenue recognition issues if you miss deadlines - you won’t stay in business if you miss them.
The schedule is defined with milestones and you have to achieve certain criteria in order to advance to the next milestone. In fact, we don’t announce products till we know they are on target for hitting the GM (Gold Master) final milestone. You may hear rumors of products but no official announcements from the company. (ie Computer Enquirer says Adobe Photoshop is suppose to come out in “x” date)
I don’t see how an editor/manager could keep their job if they keep hiring people to do work for a specific solicited date/time and not come through. Especially with DC and Marvel, those companies do have to live up to stock holders expectations. In my world the artist would be fired along with the managers.
I once approached JB with a certain job and he told me the timing was bad and he couldn’t do it. I was really hoping I could get him for the job and tried to move the deadline, but the deadline was firm (ie no fuck ups deadline) so I hired someone else. Product first, Artist second.
These days it is too much about the artist and not the product. When I was 10 I used to not care who was drawing the next issue of Spider-man so long as it came out. That being said I also assumed that I was getting the highest quality available … they were all “professionals.”
Edited by Daniel Presedo on 26 September 2005 at 11:17am
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31540
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 6
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I was paid for two weeks as well when my daughter was born. I could take up to 12 weeks but I would have had to have used vacation time to be paid for all of it due to being on salary. I think that has more to do with employer benefits. Being on salary allowed me to be paid for those two weeks since salary employees do not receive short term disability.
( I ended up leaving that job while I was on my leave and was actually off for a month. Which I could get used to very easily.)
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Joe Mayer Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 24 January 2005 Posts: 1397
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 7
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Then I suggest you get out of the house more. The bulk of work done in most offices is simple drudgery, internal maintainace, paper pushing, call it what you will. In virtually all jobs, there are, indeed, deadlines to be chased -- but they do not form the greater percentage of time consumed. Hence my use of the word "most" (specially emboldened for your ease and comfort, above) in my original statement. *****
From a man who obviously works from the home. May I suggest you get out of the house more?
While there are times that almost anyone who works in an office has duties that consists of simple drudgery, internal maintainance, paper pushing and more, those things that others are not relying on or that do not have some sort of deadline, standard, quota or whatever you would like to call it attached to it are quite few and far between.
Even a TPS report has a deadline for someone.
And thank you for emboldening "most", it did help to clarify that you meant the majority of individuals working in offices when I simply thought you meant more than half. :)
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Paul Greer Byrne Robotics Security

Joined: 18 August 2004 Posts: 14191
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | 8
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I've argued for fill-in artists in the past when a penciller has fallen behind on a monthly series. It has been a tried and true way publishers have kept a title on the shelves so they could generate monthly sales. I do understand that a company would like to keep a popular writer and artist combination together on a "story arc". I don't agree that it would hurt sales in the long run, but I'm not trying to argue that point.
Maybe another suggestion is to have a different artist work on various stories with the writer of a series to have stand by one-shots or annuals that could be solicited for the months the title might not ship. I know the current Ultimates Annual is written by Millar and drawn by Steve Dillon (a very under-utilized artist in my opinion). I believe it sold very well for Marvel. It is not directly part of the current story arc but keeps the Ultimates on the shelf while the regular series takes a break for a month. For the completists it doesn't interrupt the current numbering of a title, and makes the monthly watchers happy to see another issue on the shelves. Marvel seems slowly beginning to understand this and is also putting out an Iron Man mini-series to make up for the fact that the regular series isn't coming out in a timely manner. It doesn't solve the problem of late artists or writers, but it would allow fans to have a monthly fill of their favorite heroes.
What do the rest of you think about an idea like this?
Edited by Paul Greer on 26 September 2005 at 12:58pm
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31540
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 9
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One thing I've noticed about this is that some books are allowed fill-ins and some aren't. Superman/ Batman? Later than hell. ( Although, I do remember reading something about Loeb having a son that dies). The Donna Troy last issue? Late. Wonder Woman? Fill-in artists or " jam-artists". JSA? Fill-in artists or "jam-artists". Why do some books wait for the art to get finished or to be written while other books have to "suffer" and get served with fill-ins?
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John McMahon Byrne Robotics Member
Membership Revoked
Joined: 21 September 2004 Location: Ireland Posts: 581
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 1:25pm | IP Logged | 10
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Financial concerns, perceived or otherwise, as discussed (ad nauseum) everytime this subject comes up here.
If Millar/Hitch were working on Wonder Woman, you wouldn't get fill-in issues.
Edited by John McMahon on 26 September 2005 at 1:27pm
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31540
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 1:49pm | IP Logged | 11
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Which is BS, John. If one title has to have fill-ins, than all titles should have the same apply to them. This helps create part of the problem in the first place. "Hey did you hear? Millar/ Hitch's Superman is going to be 2 months late so the art can be done well. They must be awesome since they take so much time getting a book out." Meanwhile, Rucka/ Morales has a fill-in on Wonder Woman and neither of these guys are pikers when it comes to producing comic books. It's not fair at all. Some guys are given passes and some aren't. I call Bull Shit. All books need to come out on time. Period. Regardless of who's working on them.
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Mig Da Silva Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 900
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Posted: 26 September 2005 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | 12
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QUOTE:
"Let them (other publishers) get the crap out on time, we'll grow the roses!" |
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Even more hilarious is that me not even enjoing MacFarlane, i have to say that his stuff is not only late, but unadulterated crap.
Coincidently enough i stopped reading comics when he first appeared on Spider-Man. Being hailed has the amazing artist from fantasticland, while I - totally unware of the US hype - simply thought to myself... uh, this shit's gold?
I guess i was dumb, and stopped buying comics. Came back in 2000's, and seing the virtual nuclear deflagration that ended up in booms and busts and bankruptcies, apparently i wasn't as dumb as i thought i was.
The industry still hasn't recovered. I still don't get crap today that beats Perez, Englehart, Stern, Byrne, Buscemas, Neal Adams, Starlin, of yesteryear. So apparently it damaged the industry permantly.
The roses were filled with thorns. Give me the crap back again, please.
Edited by Mig Da Silva on 26 September 2005 at 2:03pm
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