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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4636
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| Posted: 29 April 2008 at 6:56pm | IP Logged | 1
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The comments today were a step in the right direction, but I wish Obama would just be more blunt about it: "While the economy is in the toilet and we're stuck in an endless quagmire in Iraq, my opponents are trying to convince you that the most important issue is the crazy shit my ex-pastor says. My opponents think you are stupid enough to fall for that. I don't." An approach like that would also blunt the whole elitism argument against him by pointing out it's his opponents who are playing the public for fools by focusing on stuff like this.
For that matter, one thing I've wondered all campaign is why Obama doesn't press Clinton more on the war. That is an issue where he theoretically has a big advantage on her, and he has failed to capitalize. The majority of Americans believe the war was a mistake, so why can't the only candidate who was smart enough to forsee that get any traction off the issue?
Another thing... I wish he would agree to the proposed debate. I think in a genuine debate (as opposed to the moderated joint press conferences they've had so far) he would do extremely well against Clinton. He should do it.
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Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 29 April 2008 at 7:18pm | IP Logged | 2
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Mike:
I can understand how many African Americans feel a justifiable distrust of
government, the judicial system and white america but there is a
signifcant difference between distrust and truly believing that our
government is inherently evil. And anyone who believes our Government
would unleash something like AIDS on its people believes its evil. I do
reject that.
And I am not minimizing the Tuskeegee Experiment, it was horrific. But it
was not the creation of Syphilis or the use of syphilis for "racial
cleansing." There has never been any evidence that AIDS was a biological
"race" weapon. I have little time for Conspiracy Theorists. Generally they
shout at the wind and offer no solutions. At best they cause guffaws at
worst they scare people with baseless "boogeymen."
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Ray Brady
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3737
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| Posted: 29 April 2008 at 7:26pm | IP Logged | 3
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"His emotion was real, Clinton's was obviously faked."
-----
Wow. I really want to keep liking Obama. But the more I hear bullshit
comments like this from his supporters, the more I'm liking Clinton.
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Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 29 April 2008 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | 4
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Ray -- you don't have to be an Obama supporter to doubt Hillary Clinton's
sincerity. Its a problem she's faced for years from both sides of the Aisle.
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Ray Brady
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3737
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| Posted: 29 April 2008 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | 5
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If you doubt Clinton's sincerity, then say "I doubt her sincerity." This "his
emotion is real; hers is fake" nonsense is the most blatant flavor of mind-
reading.
And I repeat; it's bullshit.
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Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 29 April 2008 at 8:55pm | IP Logged | 6
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Do you like how Clinton has conducted her campaign?
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Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9109
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| Posted: 29 April 2008 at 9:08pm | IP Logged | 7
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If you doubt Clinton's sincerity, then say "I doubt her sincerity." This "his
emotion is real; hers is fake" nonsense is the most blatant flavor of mind-
reading.
And I repeat; it's bullshit.
**************************
You have your opinion, I have mine.
The fact remains though, she was called out on it almost immediately by people.
So if you're going to allow something like that to sway you towards Clinton, so be it. Don't let the facts get in the way of actually learning about the candidates.
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Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 29 April 2008 at 9:22pm | IP Logged | 8
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Don't let the facts get in the way of actually learning about the
candidates.
Maybe its the way I read it, but that comment just seems inappropriately
condescending to me, especially since the point at issue (the sincerity of
Clinton's reaction in NH) is purely a matter of opinion. Most of these posts
where people have disagreed, while heated, have been mostly civil. Its one of
the reasons I have enjoyed this thread so -- people discussing issues
(mostly) respectfully.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 29 April 2008 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | 9
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I have to be honest - I'm getting a little weary of hearing about people voting for Clinton because they don't like Obama's supporters - it's come up a number of times in this thread over the last few months - so I'm not targeting Ray here - but I hear it in the media too, and frankly? What a direly immature way to vote. There's no two ways around it - it's almost as disgusting as being concerned with Rev Wright - it's a non-issue that has nothing to do with the candidate, his voting record, or how he'll run the country.
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Bob Neill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 December 2007
Posts: 877
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| Posted: 30 April 2008 at 12:19am | IP Logged | 10
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Re: the 'US Government created AIDS to give to blacks' theory: Yeah. Sure. Because ONLY black people have ever gotten the disease. Makes perfect sense.
Wright is a nutjob doing a shitty impression of Redd Foxx.
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Joel Tesch
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006
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| Posted: 30 April 2008 at 12:27am | IP Logged | 11
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I thought Obama's response was one of his finest moments so far on the campaign. His emotion really showed ...in a good way. Hilary's been getting all this "she's a fighter" press. I want to see Obama in fighter mode (and, no, that doesn't mean he has to go negative). I also really liked the way he called out McCain and Hilary on their inane election year pandering re: the gas tax.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 30 April 2008 at 12:45am | IP Logged | 12
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Bob - while I'm not saying it's true - you're not thinking it out right - your logic is off - you can't controll the virus once it's unleashed - let's say someone did "create" HIV - doesn't matter if it was aimed at homosexuals, blacks, or red-heads - once it's on the market, it's open to everyone.
And, Ray - again - I feel some regret for my posting above - I stand by the statement, but I want to stress, I'm not calling you out on this - but I do think it's not a very well-thought-out reason to vote for or against someone, but intentions and meanings are mis-read all the time on forums, and I do note that you were only considering the thought, not acting on it, so before I'm taken to task (you wouldn't believe the types of e-mails I get about the things I post...), I really want to clarify - I wasn't aiming any of what I said at you.
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