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Scott Richards
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Posted: 09 November 2008 at 7:55am | IP Logged | 1  

If one insists upon divides such as "we are a center right country", then fine. All the people on this board wailing and flailing for gay marriage are far, far, crazy left wing and to be ignored. Because 'center right' would be what we have now: a marriage ban in California set into the Constitution. How's that working for everyone?

Well, if someone looks at it in the most simplistic and limited of ways, you'd have something, but things are more complex than that.

We are a center right country. 

That doesn't mean we are center right on every single issue.  It's just means that overall we are center right.  The mistake I see many people make is they seem to think social issues are the be all and end all of everything and ignore everything else.  They then think we aren't center right because they are only looking at social issues as a barometer.  I think that socially we may be a center left nation, but it's other areas like national security, the economy, foreign policy, etc. where more people lean to the right than the left.

Obama was extremely fortunate that the economic crisis happened when it did.  If it had happend two months later, the outcome of the election would have been a very different thing. 
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Marc Baptiste
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Posted: 09 November 2008 at 8:22am | IP Logged | 2  

Will someone please tell me why Sarah Palin is starting to FASCINATE me??  In the last few days I have been seeking as much as possible on the 'net to read about her.

Also, JB, forgive me if you already addressed this, but did you have any thoughts on Palin (the selection of her, her politics, future as a Republican standard-bearer, etc.)... thank you in advance.
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 09 November 2008 at 8:51am | IP Logged | 3  

" Will someone please tell me why Sarah Palin is starting to FASCINATE me?? "


In what way?

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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Posted: 09 November 2008 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 4  

"Will someone please tell me why Sarah Palin is starting to FASCINATE me??  In the last few days I have been seeking as much as possible on the 'net to read about her."

Just stay clear of the Porn "parodies" of Palin that are bound to hit the market soon (if they haven't already). Whether you're a Republican or a Democrat you'd hate yourself in the morning. 

But seriously, the reason she fascinates you is almost certainly her resemblance to and association with Geek Goddess Tina Fey. The antidote is wtaching lots and lots of 30 Rock.

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Matt Reed
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Posted: 09 November 2008 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 5  

 Scott Richards wrote:
Obama was extremely fortunate that the economic crisis happened when it did.  If it had happend two months later, the outcome of the election would have been a very different thing.

We don't know that.  McCain got a bump from the Republican Convention and Palin.  Not two weeks later, the economic crisis came to a head.  That certainly wasn't enough time for the post-convention drop in numbers most candidates experience after the exposure and high of nationally televised acceptance speeches.  I'm getting pretty sick of hearing Obama won because of the crisis, as if he didn't have a shot in hell of getting the presidency without it. Did it help?  Certainly it did...as did McCain's insistence that the "fundamentals are sound" and his early bungling of the crisis looking like he was more confused and flustered than a leader.  But the election had nearly two months to go.  If the crisis didn't happen, McCain's Convention bump would have likely gone down and we would have been in a tighter race, but I don't think anyone with any certainty can say absolutely that "the outcome of the election would have been a very different thing."  If wishes were fishes...

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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 09 November 2008 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 6  

Obama was extremely fortunate that the economic crisis happened when it did.  If it had happend two months later, the outcome of the election would have been a very different thing.

---

People would have been blaming McCain's loss on Palin, his debate performance, and the campaign's lack of a coherent message, instead of blaming it on Palin, his debate performance, the campaign's lack of a coherent message, AND the economic crisis?
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 09 November 2008 at 9:33am | IP Logged | 7  

I think Palin is a fun personality. Too bad her politics is trash. 
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 09 November 2008 at 9:39am | IP Logged | 8  

By the same token, the financial meltdown could have happened a year ago. We might have ended up with the Republicans tossed out of every national office. Or different candidates altogether. McCain himself was pretty lucky in the Republican primaries. Bottom line is, Obama ran the better campaign and was able to take advantage of current events. 
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Wayde Murray
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Posted: 09 November 2008 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 9  

Scott wrote:
We are a center right country.


I agree with this 100%


Scott also wrote:
I think that socially we may be a center left nation, but it's other areas like national security, the economy, foreign policy, etc. where more people lean to the right than the left.


I agree with most of this, but I think socially the United States is center right as well. Otherwise the thought of universal health care wouldn't be such a hard sell and the "war on drugs" wouldn't be such an overriding issue.

I think many Americans are enamored of an Abraham Lincoln/Teddy Roosevelt/John Wayne version of what it means to be American, with a sizable dose of Puritanism mixed in. "Cowboys" have been idolized out of all proportion to their place in real history, and more than one has been elected president. The cowboy persona can be found in Teddy, Ike, LBJ, Reagan, and Bush the Lesser. The presidents who have strayed too far from that persona, like Carter and Bush the Elder, have been somewhat unpopular, even through the lens of history (Bush the First was very popular until he "left before the job was done" regarding Saddam). Obama's campaign took hits whenever a "real" cowboy like McCain claimed Obama would be "soft" on issues. Kerry took a hit when Swifboaters claimed he wasn't really a war hero.

You guys like cowboys, and the cowboy creed is Republican gold. Take care of your own, fix your own problems, fight your own battles, and don't take sh*t from anyone, anywhere. If the United States moved away from center right, it would stop being what it has been.

My $0.02, anyway.





edit to change "Johnson" to "LBJ" for clarity

Edited by Wayde Murray on 09 November 2008 at 11:20am
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 09 November 2008 at 10:10am | IP Logged | 10  

" If the United States moved away from center right, it would stop being what it has been. "


All we have to do is look outside our window to see where the "center right" has taken us.

I'm not saying the solution is to become Sweden. We just have to get back to reality. Yes, unregulated markets do end up self-destructing. No, we can't run a pure service economy where everyone basically washes each others laundry. Yes, "imperial overreach" has helped bankrupt the country. And so on.
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Wayde Murray
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Posted: 09 November 2008 at 10:18am | IP Logged | 11  

The view outside your window is where the FAR right has taken you, Joe. There's nothing inherently wrong with either center right or center left.
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 09 November 2008 at 10:33am | IP Logged | 12  

I agree with that 100%. Problem is, where is the center right? Who's representing it? Pretty much no one. 
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