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Jeff Gillmer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1920
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| Posted: 09 November 2008 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 1
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Enough of this downer talk. Let's PARTY!
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4639
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| Posted: 09 November 2008 at 2:49pm | IP Logged | 2
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Certainly the economic crisis helped Obama. But I don't think it's certain he would have lost if not for the crisis. Besides the crisis, I think another significant factor in erasing McCain's post-convention lead was the debates. According to pretty much every post-debate survey, independent/undecided voters felt Obama won all three debates by a wide margin. I think the debates went a long way towards building his support among that constituency. Likewise, the selection of Palin cost Obama support among independents. Minus the crisis, the election would have been much closer and it's certainly possible McCain could have won. But I disagree with the notion that he definitely would have won and that the crisis was the only thing that cost him the election.
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Christopher Alan Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 October 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2787
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| Posted: 09 November 2008 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 3
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then Karl Rove delivered this shocker to us: Sarah Palin.
++++++++++++++++++++++
Rove wanted Romney as the VP pick. Try again.
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Gene Best
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4597
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| Posted: 09 November 2008 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | 4
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Rove wanted Romney as the VP pick. Try again.
*
That surprises me. I'd love to hear more about that. Gonna have to do some Googling ...
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Gene Best
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4597
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| Posted: 09 November 2008 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | 5
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Well, that was easy:
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/06/15/rove-id-pick-romney- as-mccains-running-mate/
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William McCormick
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2006
Posts: 3297
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| Posted: 09 November 2008 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | 6
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So you consider forcing banks to make high risk loans deregulation?
***********
How were they forced? The Community Reinvestment Act has been in effect since 1977. This was the act that directed banks to serve the needs of their communities in a safe and sound manner. No one, Republican or Democrat, forced them to give loans worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to people who were making minimum wage. The banks and other financial institutions did that all on their own.
Greed is what caused the current crisis. And that greed has cost everyone.
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18353
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| Posted: 09 November 2008 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 7
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I wouldn't believe Karl Rove if he walked up to me and said "Hello, I'm Karl Rove."
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 09 November 2008 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | 8
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Palin was a total Rovian candidate, even if Rove didn't want her. Chickens coming home to roost and all.
You try again.
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Scott Richards
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2005
Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 09 November 2008 at 4:04pm | IP Logged | 9
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Greed is what caused the current crisis. And that greed has cost everyone.
I never said otherwise. Mike said Democrats deregulated. I pointed out that the CRA was created (Carter) and then changed and regulated even more (Clinton) under Democrats.
Edited by Scott Richards on 09 November 2008 at 4:05pm
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William McCormick
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2006
Posts: 3297
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| Posted: 09 November 2008 at 4:44pm | IP Logged | 10
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And that's why I asked "Who forced them". No one forced them to loan money to a single woman with three kids working for minimum wage. Especially a $300,000 loan. But they did just that.
I'm specifically asking you to clarify your comment "So you consider forcing banks to make high risk loans deregulation?".
Who forced them to make high risk loans. Because as far as I can tell neither the CRA nor the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act did that.
Perhaps I'm misreading your intent and meaning behind the statement.
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Scott Richards
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2005
Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 09 November 2008 at 5:16pm | IP Logged | 11
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But it did force them to make high risk loans. Yes, they went riskier than they should have but if it wasn't for the CRA that direction would never have been started and never would have ended up where it did. The CRA was the slippery slope that started it, IMO.
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William McCormick
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2006
Posts: 3297
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| Posted: 09 November 2008 at 5:39pm | IP Logged | 12
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I can see your point. But the original reason behind the CRA was that banks weren't loaning money to people in certain areas, usually minorities, regardless of their ability to pay. It attempted to fix that problem. Just because banks and other financial institutions went too far is hardly the fault of either party. And hardly the fault of the CRA.
The whole point was to do it in a safe and sound manner to people who were able to repay. The banks went above and beyond that all on their own.
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