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Mark McKay
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Posted: 13 November 2008 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | 1  

 Marc wrote:
I am following this race, as I do all national elections, very closely. First off, Minnesota HARDLY has a history or reputation for dirty elections.


While that is the case, there is a first time for everything! ;-)

My post was a little facetious, and it's just me expressing my suspicious opinion. Nothing to back it up with, of course. That's just how it feels to me.

 Marc wrote:
econd, for the life of me I can't figure out where the Republican complaints were 6-years ago when in a very tight, three-way Senate race (sound familiar) Coleman was the recipient of 400+ "found" votes in the final canvassing stage (twice the number allotted recently to Franken)? To boot, there was no outcry from the DFL (Minnesota Democrats) when Coleman benefited from that either. Canvassing ALWAYS results in a few hundred or even thousand votes shifting in every major election (with millions upon millions of votes cast), in every state.


I guess you make a point. However, there was like a 50,000 vote difference during that election, not 200. That makes the stakes much higher in this one - and I think someone producing a bunch of ballots from the trunk of their car is going to be viewed suspiciously, no matter who the party is that will gain or lose.


On a different note - you like Coleman less than Chambliss? Really!?


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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 13 November 2008 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | 2  

 John O'Conner wrote:
Do you have anything like factual data to back that statement up?


Obama Plans Detroit Rescue

Harper Agrees to boost infrastructure

Canadian Economy Still Better than the US

You didn't say which comment you had problems with so I found links to all three. I did notice that Harper seems to be capitulating from his previous statements of no handouts, which is sad, but hopefully it won't happen.

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 13 November 2008 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 3  

After 9/11 the American people wanted to feel secure, and they turned to the government, who responded by establishing forces and agencies that would provide a feeling of security to the American People.  People on the left would disagree with the fine points - individual liberties were being lost, some tactics bordered on fascist, etc, but in the end, America wanted a Daddy figure to "take care" of it, and the government responded.

It's the same with the current financial crisis.  Sure, people can argue the fine points of it - that a free market doesn't care if you starve, that paying tax is an assult on our freedom, whatever, but in the end, like 9/11, we are in a tight spot and the American People have little patience for intellectual exercizes or armchair theories about free market  - they just want a Daddy figure to "take care" of them.

I'd like to think that it was Obama's AWESOMENESS that won the election for him, but in the end, I have to believe that it was the American Voters responding to a Daddy figure for the current situation just as they did with Bush in the aftermath of 9/11.  There's a lesson to be learned about pandering here somewhere...

(My appologies for the patronizing tone of this - can't help it, I'm a San Franciscan.  I suspect, beneath my snark, I may have stumbled onto an interesting talking point.  Anyone want to translate what I said into regular non-snark speak?)

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Jeff Stockwell
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Posted: 13 November 2008 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | 4  

Mike, I think you nailed it (and with just the right amount of snark).
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Mark McKay
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Posted: 13 November 2008 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 5  

Mike, I have heard a lot of commentary that it wasn't necessarily Obama's AWSOMENESS that one him the election, but a combination of situations that paved the way for him: mainly Bush's low low approval ratings and the economy. I think that's true, but I also think Obama's skills as a communicator were a big part of it as well. (Edited to add: without George Bush preceeding him, could he have done it anyway!?)

But if they wanted a Daddy figure, wouldn't they have picked McCain!? I guess it's relative, but Obama is more of an older brother figure to me!

Edited by Mark McKay on 13 November 2008 at 3:50pm
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 13 November 2008 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | 6  

 Mark McCay wrote:
I'm not confident that he'll pull through, though. It feels like new votes keep popping up left and right for Franken.


From what I've read, no "new votes" have been counted yet.  The reason Coleman's lead shrunk by 100 or so initially is "because county auditors are finding minor errors as they’re proofing their unofficial numbers before shipping them to St. Paul, said John Aiken, spokesman for Secretary Mark Ritchie." 

The actual recount will involve counting new votes, however, in my understanding.  They are going to go back and hand-count all the ballots, and that means looking over ballots the machine counters rejected and counting them if the intent on the ballot is clear.

We here in Washington went through the same thing four years ago in our governor's race.  The initial count and the machine recount gave the election to the Republican.  Then a final hand recount gave the victory to the Democrat by something like a mere 133 votes.  There were allegations of corruption and vote tampering, but nothing proven.  I imagine that will be the case in Minnesota regardless of who wins... the losing side will be absolutely convinced something crooked was done.
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 13 November 2008 at 4:54pm | IP Logged | 7  

Thanks, Jeff!

Mark - good points.

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 13 November 2008 at 5:02pm | IP Logged | 8  

Sorry Mark - I realized I had an answer for you - I'd imagine that McCain would be, literally, more of a father type (well... grandfather.  And Obama is now twice as old as my dad was when he had me, but I get your point) - but this is what I meant by my point - McCain's plan - or at least what the Americans took to be his plan, was very much in line with the Conservative values - letting the free market handle the situation.  Obama's plan, according to the media, was more of a "I'm going to take care of you" plan.  So between those two plans, Obama's was more of the Daddy plan.

Just like 9/11.  We'll never know for sure, but knowing my party, I imagine the Democratic response to 9/11 would be to hunt down Bin Laden, try him and execute him and that would be that.  But that's not what people wanted - they wanted the Patriot Act and the War in Iraq and so on.  Again, a Daddy to take care of them.

Now, don't get me wrong - I do believe that Americans, by and large, are very adult and individulaistic, but in times of crisis, historically, we as a nation, do tend to want a Daddy figure as President, at least in terms of what they can do "for us".  (As opposed to what we can do for them.)

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Posted: 13 November 2008 at 5:22pm | IP Logged | 9  

5  Lessons We Hope Obama Learned from Spider-Man !

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/110813-Obama-Spider-Man.html

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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 13 November 2008 at 9:56pm | IP Logged | 10  

There's thousands of lessons we should hope he didn't learn from Conan the Barbarian. 

Edited by Joe Zhang on 13 November 2008 at 9:56pm
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 14 November 2008 at 2:30am | IP Logged | 11  

Priest Says Obama Voters Need Penance
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Posted: 14 November 2008 at 8:20am | IP Logged | 12  

There's thousands of lessons we should hope he didn't learn from Conan the Barbarian.

LOL !  Or from Schwarzenegger !



Edited by Dan Walsh on 14 November 2008 at 8:20am
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