Steve Horn wrote: Actually the war in Iraq is a success.  Give the devil his due, he built up the Amercian forces and they were able to make the region stable. I'm not a fan of the war, but we won that one.

Um...what?  The Middle East is stable now because of the Iraq War?  Seriously?  You've got to be a closet comedian or someone with a sense of humor so dry that I'm not getting it because that is, hands down and bar none, one of the most ridiculous statements I've read in this thread specifically and on the Iraq War in general. 

Ford worse than Nixon and Bush?  Really?  Oh my god!  Thanks for giving me the best laugh I'll probably have all week!  You've topped yourself there, Steve.  Keep 'em coming!

 There's a reason this economic crisis is being compared to the crisis of the 1930's

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That's just the Press talking.  I've heard that line in every Presidential election.

Now you're just spouting bullshit.  The current economic crisis is far worse than anything we saw in the 70s.  I know.  I've lived through both.  There's a reason this economic crisis is being compared to the crisis of the 1930's and no whisper has been made to the far less threatening, mild by comparison crisis of the 70s.

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Matt, I don't think we can yet say this current crisis is as bad as the one in the 1970s. For starters, the 1970s recession was a lengthy one and we don't know how long this current downturn will last.

The 1970s were marked by both high inflation and unemployment rates - that's what made it so bad. Neither rate is as high now - the unemployment rate currently is at 6.5%, compared to more than 8% in the mid-70s. The inflation rate actually dropped in October to less than 4%; it was around 9% during the peak of the 1970s crisis.

However, the bad news is that we may not have hit bottom yet. The economy could get worse -- and if so, it could surpass the 1970s recession. But (thankfully) we're not there yet.

Probably the reason this crisis seems worse to folks like you and me is that we were kids in the 1970s. We understood there was a problem and were worried, but it was something for grown-ups to handle. Now, you and I are worried about paying bills, keeping a job, etc., so it's naturally going to seem worse.

(BTW, any comparison between the current downturn and the Great Depression is totally off-base. The unemployment rate hit 25% in 1932. The Great Depression was far, far worse that what we're experiencing now.)

Ford worse than Nixon? 

If one can put aside Watergate, Nixon was an exceedingly effective President.  But Watergate cannot be put aside and I think it colors his presidency for the worse.  Ford made great strides in restoring "the office" but was not president long enough to have had an appreciable substantive effect by which his presidency can be judged.  The pardon of Nixon was political suicide for Ford, but in that instance I think he put country first. 

Contrast Ford with George W. Bush and I fail to see how anyone can argue that Bush was a better president.  He has been a failure in every way possible.  At least Ford treated the office with dignity and respect.  The Bush adminstration's endoresement of torture, disdain for due process, and disregard for the protections of the Constitution make George W. Bush a strong candidate for worst president EVER.

Really.  You heard it in 2004? You heard it in '96?  You heard it in '84?  Seriously?  C'mon Steve.  Be intellectually honest here.

Geoff Gibson wrote: The Bush adminstration's endoresement of torture, disdain for due process, and disregard for the protections of the Constitution make George W. Bush a strong candidate for worst president EVER.

I couldn't agree more.  Well put, Geoff.  To say that Ford is worse than Bush is so incredibly laughable as to make one question the intellectual capacity of the person making that kind of statement.

Bruce:

I think where the current financial crisis is similar to the great depression is in the instability in the banking industry.  I agree we're no where near the levels of unemployment (by means of percentage I don't know in actual unemployed people -- we have more citizens now than in 1932) and the instability in lending in 1930s was worse but I don't believe the credit markets in the 1970s were as endangered as they are today.

Steve you do realize Rush Limbaugh is not a historian. Seriously your post so far have cracked me up!

And they say American schools are failing, Ha!

Matt:

Thats why I supported bailing out the credit markets.  I DO NOT support bailing out the Big Three at this point.  We have bankruptcy laws for a reason.  One of them is so companies can reorganize and repair themselves.  I think if the Big Three go through Bankruptcy, and reorganize (and a big part of that reorganization is removing the weight of the UAW contract or at least making it less onerous) the if assistance is need to help them it should be considered. 

Besides anyone who flies to congress in a private jet to ask for a handout to run their business is too fucking stupid to be allowed to keep the keys to the factory.

And they say American schools are failing, Ha!

All children left behind . . .