Here are some things Chicago-based (caucasian) theologian Martin Marty has written about Trinity United and Jeremiah Wright:

http://marty-center.uchicago.edu/sightings/archive_2007/0402 .shtml

http://chronicle.com/free/v54/i30/30b00101.htm

There's nothing new being covered in this back and forth - we all think the opposing side is not being honest, while we all believe in our own views.

My point?  Can anyone show factual evidence, based on voting record, political actions, political goals, plans, etc, that show that this preacher's silly sermons have had or will have any effect on Obama's actions in public office?

I have yet to hear an answer on that.

And, uh, Thom - as noted in an earlier post, like, an hour ago he did know the guy made crazy speaches - and that he parsed it really carefully and noted that, you know, he didn't know about specific words from specific speaches.   So, good atempt at a Clintonian "Gotcha", but... nope.  Then again, you could Fox-News it and just keep repeating it over and over till it becomes "true".

And Matt - what's your point?  What do you mean by gossip?  Did the people discuss the sermons and ideas?  I would hope they would.   I think the word gossip is a loaded word, and I, and possibly others assumed the negative connotation of it - that by gossip, you meant people left the church saying "Can you believe what that guy said?!  I've never heard such things!", while instead it was probably  "Yeah, Wright said the same thing we've heard in every corner store, barber shop, place of business, home, school, etc.  So, how about that crazy suit he had on!"

But - that may not have been your intention - so, what do you mean by gossip, and what is the point of if or if not things were gossiped?

Oh, also - am I the only one here feeling a tad uncomfortable that we're having this discussion about how blacks think and feel...

without anyone who is black adding to the conversation? 

Kind of makes moot our conversation, and again, perhaps we should stick to Obama's ACTUAL actions, votes, voting record, plans and goals, things like that...

without anyone who is black adding to the conversation?

Well, we're all throwing around our opinion on how blacks think and feel, and... uh... it's not only not really relevent to Obama's leadership abilities, but... it would be like if we were talking about how Christopher Alan Miller though and felt, but did not include Christopher Alan Miller, you know?

When did we all become experts on the black experience?

How are black people excluded from this comversation? How do you know that some of us aren't black?. 

You can talk about me whenever you want. It's a free country.

My original intention in addressing this notion of gossip was the idea floated that Obama, although a member of the church, may have not heard about all of the things said by the pastor at the church.  That he only heard good and positive things while in the church.  Unifying things.  I find it hard to believe that the congregation didn't talk, and yes "talk" is a form of gossip.  Gossip, in and of itself, isn't always bad.  It can and often is just talking about a person or a person's ideas when they aren't present.  In that light, yeah, I find it a specious argument that Obama wasn't privy to the knowledge of what Wright was preaching over two decades as a member of that congregation, either by being present at the time of a sermon or hearing about it from other members of the congregation.  Some in this thread would say that it's not beyond the bounds of reason that he didn't know what Wright was saying.  I find that to be poppycock.

That was my point.