Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 1093 Next >>
Topic: US Presidential Election (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Donald Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3597
Posted: 24 November 2008 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 1  

On the "for" and "against" debate I have to side with Mike.  I was for Obama already but could understand what people saw in McCain.  With the addition of Palin I became violently opposed to the opposing ticket.

D-
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
Posted: 24 November 2008 at 9:36am | IP Logged | 2  

why are we not going after our lame duck president with more gusto...he lied in order to involve is in a war causing quite a few more deaths than the infamous Lewinski BJgate.  I would say his actions were treasonous.

No expert here but I am not sure that a strong case of treason could be made against the president.  But assuming a case could be made I think it would be a "bad" case to bring.  Its for the same reason Gerald Ford was right to pardon Nixon -- our country does not need to see a president on trial.  Let him go off into history as one of the worst presidents we've ever had.  Here, Don, my brother from another mother, is an article I suspect you will enjoy!

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Scott Richards
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 September 2005
Posts: 1258
Posted: 24 November 2008 at 9:43am | IP Logged | 3  

To be fair, though, I would have lied about that myself.

I've got to admit, that made me laugh.  Heh
Back to Top profile | search
 
Donald Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3597
Posted: 24 November 2008 at 9:47am | IP Logged | 4  

Thanks for the link Geoff, I enjoyed it.  I guess I agree that ultimately America does not need to see it's president or former president wearing the striped suit.  I was just having a crank moment...I gets worked up when the Clinton Blow-job thing gets brought up...I mean when you compare lies...whew! 

I guess I will just have to hope for a better future, something I hope we can all agree on.

Don
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Bruce Buchanan
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 June 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4797
Posted: 24 November 2008 at 9:48am | IP Logged | 5  

It also would set a terrible precedent. Every president makes controversial decision and every president makes enemies. If we go after unpopular presidents for the decisions they make in office, then no president is going to be safe and the whole system breaks down.

And there's no way you could make a treason case against President Bush. You may think he was a bad president who made awful decisions (and a lot of people would agree with that!). But he certainly didn't willfully conspire with our enemies to undermine our country, which would be treason.

Every president is going to do things that are strongly disliked by some segments of the population. The good news is that we have a strong system of checks & balances - and every four years, we get to vote on our leadership.

 



Edited by Bruce Buchanan on 24 November 2008 at 9:50am
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Bruce Buchanan
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 June 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4797
Posted: 24 November 2008 at 9:49am | IP Logged | 6  

I guess I will just have to hope for a better future, something I hope we can all agree on.

*********

Agreed!

Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12734
Posted: 24 November 2008 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 7  

I don't know if I agree that it's better for the nation to not see a President
impeached or not.

There is so much disillusionment out there about government and justice
and what's-the-point-of-caring/participating it might just be the best
medicine ever.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18353
Posted: 24 November 2008 at 10:01am | IP Logged | 8  

The only problem with impeaching Bush is that it is his enablers that would be doing the impeaching, sort of a political "look what you made us do".  But it's easier to impeach one guy than tar-and-feather upwards of 500.

If only there were a method by which the voters could remove people from office.  We could do it every 2/4/6 years...  Something something t-i-o-n....

Back to Top profile | search
 
Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
Posted: 24 November 2008 at 10:11am | IP Logged | 9  

Questions about his relationships had no bearing.

Which, as I pointed out, he could have said.  Instead he chose to perjure himself.  Again in a civil case -- not a case brought by Starr.  I agree that there was a TON of bullshit surrounding the scandal -- but he was a sitting president who chose to lie under oath.  Thats a big deal.  We rely on sworn testimony -- if the president does not respect that why should an "ordinary" citizen?  Thats why its a big deal.  Part of being president is being a leader.

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Marc Baptiste
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3633
Posted: 24 November 2008 at 10:14am | IP Logged | 10  

Geoff,

1) Clinton should have hired you as his lawyer

2) We disagree on whether or not a president should be brought to trial.  You would essentially make a president or former president above the law, I think that is beyond frightening.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
Posted: 24 November 2008 at 10:28am | IP Logged | 11  

We disagree on whether or not a president should be brought to trial.  You would essentially make a president or former president above the law, I think that is beyond frightening.

Only if you take what I wrote to the extreme that you have.  No where did I articulate that there should be a formal bar to the prosecution of a sitting president or for prosecution of an Ex-President.  What I tried to articulate (perhaps ineffectually) is that I do not believe that the "cost" of such a prosecution would worth the result.  In Nixon's case prosecution would have slowed a very necessary healing process.  So I agree that Ford (to his undying credit) did what was nationally necessary, and in so doing committed political suicide.  By no means am I saying that a president should be "above the law." 

For example, should Jimmy Carter shoot someone in the face he should be tried.  The question as it pertains to Nixon or Bush (and there was a case with Nixon I don't believe there is one with Bush) is whether it is the best use of prosecutorial efforts -- what is gained and what is the cost?  An analysis every prosecutor needs to make before bringing a case.  Very often simply because one can prosecute doesn't mean that they should. 

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Monte Gruhlke
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3298
Posted: 24 November 2008 at 10:28am | IP Logged | 12  

Although I understand that Congress (gasp) may have a political agenda in pursuing an impeachment... we should keep in mind that if there are crimes committed then the guilty party must be held accountable. President? Former President? It isn't about how it is "perceived" within our country or in others, it's about justice, pure and simple.

"How dare YOU sir!"

(Yet I seem to remember "somewhere" that presidents can make up to 2 people disappear... did Bush use his up?)   ;-)
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 

<< Prev Page of 1093 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login