Yeah, I don't think that was Obama's point when he said he didn't hear such things - it's the only thing I don't like about his campaign so far - that he pulled a Clinton and parsed it, but he was saying, you know, he didn't hear the "god damn america" and the 9/11 and AIDS stuff - he wasn't there for that particular speach, but early on, he admitted he knew there was whacked out speaches. 

So, this guy's reputation is being tarnished not because of things he said or did, but about assumptions made about him and repeated in the media, on-line, etc.

Nice!  Stay classy, America!

And, yes, yes, Thom, Christopher, I'm as guilty as everyone else here - I'm presuming to have some insight to the black experience that, as an outsider, I can never have, and looking at my own words, I realized this was spiraling out of control.

Christopher - oh, believe me you, I do talk about you all the time behind your back.  But understand, when I'm discussing your thoughts and feelings, my statements have no facts or validity behind them, and are just the rantings of an ignorant boob.  Because I am not you, and I have no idea what your thoughts and feelings are.  I can make educated guesses based on your statements here on the JBF, but I'm sure you'll agree, I would be hard-pressed to come up with a detailed report of your actual thoughts, feelings, etc, and thus, my comments as such would be meaningless and trivial.

WHICH, by the way, is my point - how does our lilly-white expert opinion on the black experience have any meaning in this conversation?  Why don't we talk about the price of apples in Ecuador - it's just as relevent...

No, Keith, I didn't say we can't discuss blacks - I'm saying that we're not in a legitimate position to describe how certain people, whose experience is totally different from ours, think, feel and believe.

Lots of people missing my point - am I being unclear?

Michael Roberts wrote: And from my own life experiences, I think you are wrong, Matt.

Fair enough.  Whatever your experience is, it's certainly different from mine.  I grew up in the church in the home of a pastor, my father.  I'm pretty intimately aware of how much gossiping goes on in the church.  I'd posit that more gossiping goes on in the church, any church, than just about anywhere else.  It certainly rivals the gossiping that goes on at high school or among co-workers.  From that light, certainly anecdotal, I find it hard to believe that no gossiping, no talking about, a pastor's sermon ever reached the ears of Obama in two decades.

When did we all become experts on the black experience?

***********

Mike, I'd agree that the relevance of Obama's relationship with Wright has been blown out of proportion. I'd hate to be held accountable for every one I've ever known.

Having said that, asking questions about their relationship is entirely appropriate, no matter if they are white, black, red or purple. I don't see how race even factors into it. Obama is running for President. Every serious contender for president opens their entire life up to scrutiny. They know that going in.

Before the 2000 election, George Bush's 30-year-old drunken driving arrest became a big topic of public conversation. Was that fair game for debate? Of course it was. He chose to run for president, knowing that made his entire life an open book.