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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 01 May 2008 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | 1  

The problem Wright presents to Obama is this: the statements he has made and positions he has taken or endorsed are anti-thetical to the image of himself that Obama has presented to America in his most famous speeches.  I first noticed Obama at the 2004 Democratic Convention.  Obama's speech was the highlight of the convention because he spoke as a uniter.  Even his speech in Philadelphia addressed how we must try to understand racial differences.  Much of Wright's comments, on the otherhand, were how our government (and by extension white america) is evil and corrupt.  Mike you want everyone to look at Obama's record -- but most people don't do that.  They vote for who the trust or who they're gut tells them will be better for them.

The other problem Wright has created for Obama is one of perception.  Obama has run as being "not just another politician" -- kind of similar to the way McCain did in 2000 -- an argument which is weakened when Wright (who Obama did not cut loose) calls him just that: "Another Politician."

So it becomes an issue because its all voters are hearing.  Thats why Obama should do town halls -- tell people, not journalists, why he is the right candidate.  Answer regular people's questions about Wright and Trinity.  He needs to reassure his constituancy and his party that he can win.  He needs to get people excited again! He needs to get the momentum back and he needs to define himself again. I think he can do those things -- but I haven't seen him do it yet.



Edited by Geoff Gibson on 01 May 2008 at 2:10pm
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Christopher Alan Miller
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Posted: 01 May 2008 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 2  

There's a poll showing Clinton with a slight lead in North Carolina. 44% to 42%

 

http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/polls/pdfs/insideradvan tage-majority-opinion-research-north-carolina-april29-2008.p df

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Thom Price
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Posted: 01 May 2008 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 3  

It's like being friends, y'know?  For example, I've got a friend who is extremely conservative.  I mean, so much so that it's difficult to engage in any political conversation with him.  He'll defend Bush to the nth degree.  He hates Clinton. Can't stand liberals.  Thinks that much of America's problems stem from the Democrats and liberal factions in politics.  I disagree with him absolutely and totally.  Know what?  He's still my friend.

***

I agree with this, to an extent.  I have many friends whose beliefs and views are opposite of mine; my grandfather, like many of his generation, was a rather fiery bigot (although a curious kind of bigot -- my most vivid memory of him is of him helping a black lady whose car had broken down in front of his home.)  While I have and will challenge and disagree with these friends whose views are different than mine, I remain friends with them.

There is, however, one major difference between this scenario and the Wright-Obama situation.  My friends are not in positions of power to spread their viewpoints.  A while back, Wright's sermons were dismissed as not being important and carrying no weight; they are, after all, just words.  Interesting that this view was put forth by someone who is non-religious.  What is the purpose of religion, of preaching, if not the spreading of beliefs and views, of indoctrination?  To deny the power of the pulpit is to naively ignore the impact religion has had on human history.

Obama has made it clear that he finds the messages of Wright to be offensive and yet he, who wants to be the leader of the free world, didn't have the backbone to stand up for his own beliefs until forced to for political expediency.


Edited: because I submitted too soon.


Edited by Thom Price on 01 May 2008 at 2:22pm
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 01 May 2008 at 2:20pm | IP Logged | 4  

My only contention today has been the notion that there has been no
gossiping, no talking about, what a pastor says behind the pulpit
especially over the course of two decades as a member of a congregation.
I'm not talking content here, only the very human nature to talk. I find it
unbelievable to the extreme that a member in good standing, someone
who goes so far as to say that the pastor is their spiritual leader, is
unaware of what is being said behind the pulpit.

---

To address both Matt and Thom:

If Wright had built entire sermons around the government creating the
AIDS virus or the U.S. being terrorists (and I've watched the entire "God
Damn America" sermon and don't consider that specific sermon being an
example of that), I would agree with what you are saying. The statements
that had been getting airplay up before last week were smaller bits of a
broader sermon, and I have no problem with the idea that people who
found them offensive just shrugged and moved on and focused on the
broader message.

You see this behavior in political discussions. Someone on an anti-Bush
rant might make an unfair, offensive personal statement about Bush. The
people who share the same views about Bush might be personally
offended by the statement, but won't make a big deal about it and focus
on the broader things being stated, while someone who supports Bush (is
insane) will focus entirely on that one statement.
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 01 May 2008 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 5  

Timing plays a big role here Geoff - early in the season, when there were more primaries, he had an image of momentum because his wins were frequent and close together.

Now, at this point, the elections are like one or two a month, with plenty of time in between, and he was never projected to win Penn - yet when he didn't, there were 4 weeks leading up to it, and now a few weeks after it, where the Corporate Media harps about how he's lost momentum - If Penn were in Feb, it would've been a blip on the radar, but now we have all this time to dwell on it before and after the election.

Not to say the smear campaign hasn't had it's effect - timing isn't the only thing hurting him, but it's certainly being used by those who are playing the game.

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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 01 May 2008 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 6  

while someone who supports Bush (is insane)

Michael:

Don't insult the insane that way.  They don't like him either.

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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 01 May 2008 at 2:28pm | IP Logged | 7  

Timing plays a big role here Geoff - early in the season, when there were more primaries, he had an image of momentum because his wins were frequent and close together.

Now, at this point, the elections are like one or two a month, with plenty of time in between, and he was never projected to win Penn - yet when he didn't, there were 4 weeks leading up to it, and now a few weeks after it, where the Corporate Media harps about how he's lost momentum - If Penn were in Feb, it would've been a blip on the radar, but now we have all this time to dwell on it before and after the election.

Not to say the smear campaign hasn't had it's effect - timing isn't the only thing hurting him, but it's certainly being used by those who are playing the game.

What is hurting him most Mike is he is allowing others to define him.  Maybe its me but he has not been as energized as he was earlier in the campaign.  He needs that back.  And he need to really reach out to two groups: Hispanics and "Reagan Democrats" -- because he needs them both to win a general election.

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Keith Elder
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Posted: 01 May 2008 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | 8  

I heard a story on the radio this morning; apparently there was some sort of musical group from Haiti touring the states, playing at small venues and schools.  At one school the administrators decided to send all the black kids to watch them perform, leaving the other races in the classroom.

That's horribly racist, and I doubt the administrators even understand why.  After all, they were doing something nice for the blacks.  Insane.

My point is just that racism and bigotry is bad, coming from a white, black, arab, or klingon, and usually even regardless of motivation.  I'm glad this little POS pastor is being held up for ridicule and contempt.  They need to be called on the perpetuation of harm they're inflicting... the misdirected harm they're inflicting on people they are supposedly helping. 

It doesn't much tarnish Obama in my eyes, though.  He's a little guilty for not actively and publicly rejecting the church, but he's a politician.  His job is to smile, be diplomatic, and pretend nothing's wrong.  He just kept on going to the church, not particularly wanting to create a big tiff.  Maybe it's a flaw, but I don't view it as a deal-breaker.

On the plus side, McCain is a better candidate than Bush, and either Hillary or Obama is a better candidate than Kerry.  In that sense, we should all be happy.

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 01 May 2008 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | 9  

We need more Keith Elders around here!
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Al Cook
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Posted: 01 May 2008 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 10  

Hear hear!
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 01 May 2008 at 3:55pm | IP Logged | 11  

 Michael Roberts wrote:
If Wright had built entire sermons around the government creating the
AIDS virus or the U.S. being terrorists (and I've watched the entire "God
Damn America" sermon and don't consider that specific sermon being an
example of that), I would agree with what you are saying. The statements
that had been getting airplay up before last week were smaller bits of a
broader sermon, and I have no problem with the idea that people who
found them offensive just shrugged and moved on and focused on the
broader message.

I think we may be getting our wires crossed where this notion of gossip is concerned.  You've mentioned several times that you see it, in the context of this discussion, as something having to do with throwing ones hands in the air, exclaiming "I CAN'T BELIEVE HE SAID THAT!!!" and storming out of the church to return no more.  That is decidedly not what I'm saying.  What I am saying is that people talk.  Period.  About anything.  Doesn't have to be all or nothing.  Doesn't have to be controversial.  Doesn't even have to be about anything meaningful.  People will talk about anything.  In that light, I find it incredibly tough to believe that people just plain didn't talk about what Wright was saying behind the pulpit, even if it was to say "You weren't here last Sunday, so this is what Rev. Wright said..." or "Rev. Wright had a beautiful sermon a couple of Sunday's ago about..." In 20 years.  Not a solitary soul spoke about what Rev. Wright preached, be it in the broader context of a sermon or the singular theme that was the week's focus.  People found it so ordinary, so within their wheelhouse so to speak, that they didn't discuss it?  Not even to voice their affirmation? 

Sorry.  Not buying it.

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 01 May 2008 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | 12  

Hey, Matt - I think I have an insight - I think you're talking about people who go every week, and are really actively involved in the Church.

From what I can tell, Obama and his family showed up from time to time, and was involved in events.  I'm sure he was doing a lot of shaking hands and back-slapping, but I think I can believe Obama when he parsed his words and said he didn't know those specific quotes.

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