That is a good option, Geoff, but let's not forget the unique situation that got us into this - most of the time, Florida and Michigan wouldn't have had a vote, since the candidate is picked by the time they get there - and they were ok losing their delegates, since it was just a kind of jesture vote anyway - had Hillary been anointed as the Media wanted, this wouldn't have been an issue.

Damn you Obama for being such a good candidate!  Damn you!  You're ruining game plans that have been in motion since 1992!  Gah!

Which, by the way, is one of the many things that I love about Obama...

Which, by the way, is one of the many things that I love about Obama...

Along with his hair, the way his eyes glisten under the studio lights . . . . :op

(sorry Mike -- I couldn't pass it up!)

That is a good option, Geoff, but let's not forget the unique situation that got us into this - most of the time, Florida and Michigan wouldn't have had a vote, since the candidate is picked by the time they get there - and they were ok losing their delegates, since it was just a kind of jesture vote anyway - had Hillary been anointed as the Media wanted, this wouldn't have been an issue.

I understand that but I think its slightly hypocritical for the party that has bitched about "every vote" counting since the 2000 election.  I guess every vote they value.*

*So we're clear -- I'm knocking the party heads, Howard Dean, et al -- not democratic voters.

Idiotic and hypocritical all rolled into one!

Howard Dean, ladies and gentlemen!

No - and I argued this point a few pages back - in Florida, 2000 the issue was that people who were supposed to be allowed to vote were not, and many whose votes were clearly for a particular person were considered void because of hanging chads, or other bizarre errors.

The odd irony is this - back in 1998 Florida introduced a system that would make sure felons couldn't vote - because, it seems, it was some sort of huge problem - felons voting - (kind of like how, supposedly, illegals voting is such a huge problem now.  Ahem..) - so they introduced a system that would keep felons from voting - which is ok, because, in Florida, if you are a fellon, you have lost your right to vote.  The problem is - the system was the type where it was better to be safe than sorry, so anyone with a similar name or demographic was also denied the vote.

That was a lot of words - let me break it down:

• Rules are established in elections.
• People are allowed to vote or not vote based on various rules
• In Florida, 2000, Voters who were legally entitled to vote were denied their vote
• In the Dem 2008 Primary in Florida/Michigan, the voters knew going in that thier votes were invalid.

In all fairness and in hindsight, sure, a better option could have been worked out, but who could have seen such a tight race?  Everyone knew Hillary was going to walk in, have a tiara and flowers handed to her - or crown and septre, to be more honest, and it would be done with.  The Florida/Michigan thing was bad in retrospect, but at the time, it didn't seem like an issue.

In all fairness and in hindsight, sure, a better option could have been worked out, but who could have seen such a tight race? 

I get that Mike, I really do.  But my issue is fairness; if you lived in Michigan it would have been okay with you that your vote was invalid before you cast it? Thats not fair to the citizen that wants their vote recorded -- because it is their way of saying who they think should be in charge. 

I also think it was politicially stupid, espescially since the race is not over, but it would have been stupid even if the race was over.  Its the syptom of a larger disease within the leadership of the Democratic party. 

Oh, well, that I agree with - but... again, I believe it's a little more complicated than that - most elections we don't have to worry about them - they serve as a tie-breaker - how many times in our lifetimes have we had such a close primary?  Who saw this coming?  You know - according to the media, for the last 4 years, Hillary was to be brought in, crowned and seated at her throne.  The way it's played out no one saw coming.

I would love it if it was just based on the popular vote - (partially because that favors my candidate!) but also, we don't know how the Superdelegates will vote yet - if they support the person who got the popular vote, it all works out, doesn't it?