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Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9109
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| Posted: 02 May 2008 at 7:53pm | IP Logged | 1
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Exactly what "war" are they supposed to be ending? Clearly, we're not at war
with Iraq any more, so If we're talking about withdrawing troops, that's
merely aborting the reconstruction.
I think it's pretty clear that, no matter how bad we want out soldiers to come
home, whenever we do finally pull out, it's going to be messy.
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Fine, let's abort the reconstruction. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm tired of American lives literally being wasted over there. Yeah, it'll be messy when we finally withdraw, but let the Iraqis deal with the mess now. It's time for Iraq to "grow up and be on their own now".
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 02 May 2008 at 8:46pm | IP Logged | 2
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I agree with Kevin - I would glibly say "How is it our problem?" but I know it's our problem - Iraq had running water, electricity, no terrorists, etc before we fucked it up... so... in a sense, it is our responsibility...
Having said that... it sickens me that our soldiers are dying for such a mess. Let Bush's cabinet, the signators of the PNAC and the board of Directors of Haliburton go there and clean it up. It's not our soldier's fault.
Having said that - in the five years we've been there - the reasons why we went and why we continue to stay change on a regular basis - with the hope that the American people won't pay attention, and will not concern themselves with last week's excuses, and rather be concerned with American Idol and the Brine-y Spear and whatever blonde white girl was murdered/kidnapped this time - but, for those who don't remember - our goal, after "toppling the regime" was making sure Iraqi forces were up to the task of running the show without us.
Well? Time's up, Iraq. Time to fend for yourself. We owe them, perhaps, at best, financial restitution for fucking up their country, but no more troops should have to die, become crippled or lose their minds over this debacle.
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Brian Hunt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5180
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| Posted: 02 May 2008 at 9:45pm | IP Logged | 3
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Not just our Soldiers, Marines, Sailors, and Airmen have died in Iraq. Our allies have lost lives as well as over 1 million Iraqis. How does Bush sleep at night?
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4636
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| Posted: 03 May 2008 at 11:22am | IP Logged | 4
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Ray Brady wrote:
Exactly what "war" are they supposed to be ending? Clearly, we're not at war
with Iraq any more, so If we're talking about withdrawing troops, that's
merely aborting the reconstruction.
I think it's pretty clear that, no matter how bad we want out soldiers to come
home, whenever we do finally pull out, it's going to be messy. |
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We are not at war with Iraq, we are enmeshed in a civil war between the factions there. Reconstruction can't occur when the civil war is not over.
I agree that it would be messy if the US pulled out now. But I see no indication that it would be any less messy if the US pulls out in 10 years, or 50. The only difference would be thousands less US lives lost if we leave now. Not an ideal solution, I know, but I've yet to see anyone offer an alternative that is realistic. There seems to be no growth in stability there that is not propped up by US troops, and no indication that will change. If anything, our presence there is slowing the resolution of the civil war, because the factions can focus on attacking us rather than resolving (or fighting out) their differences.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 03 May 2008 at 11:22am
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16633
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| Posted: 03 May 2008 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 5
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Mike, have you seen this?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SnQOdEXbNQ
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Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 03 May 2008 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 6
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That kid is awesome.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 03 May 2008 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | 7
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No, I hadn't! Couldn't tell if he was taking the piss or not, but it was a cute song.
I hadn't mined youtube this campaign cycle yet - haven't even checked in with the jibjab guys - but just poking around a few min, and I found this one that I really liked...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr0MLl-fxuo&feature=relat ed
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 03 May 2008 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | 8
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O M G... I found one even better...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8lvc-azCXY
So awesome... so awesome...
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Knut Robert Knutsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006
Posts: 7374
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| Posted: 03 May 2008 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | 9
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Well, that was ...
I hate to say it but it was actually better than the prequel trilogy.
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Scott Richards
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2005
Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 03 May 2008 at 8:22pm | IP Logged | 10
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Youtube definitely has some funny ones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgt6YQiZTkc
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4636
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| Posted: 03 May 2008 at 10:07pm | IP Logged | 11
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Well, with his victory in Guam today Obama has regained the momentum!
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Christopher Alan Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 October 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2787
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| Posted: 03 May 2008 at 10:12pm | IP Logged | 12
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Results of the count completed Sunday morning Guam time show delegates pledged to Obama with 2,264 votes to 2,257 for Clinton’s slate. That means they’ll split the pledged delegate votes. Obama’s slate won in 14 of 21 districts.
Eight pledged delegates will attend the convention, each with one-half vote.
U.S. citizens on the island, however, have no vote in the November election.
The territory also sends five superdelegates to the National Convention in August in Denver.
Damn. We have some weird election rules.
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Topic Closed)
