Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 1093 Next >>
Topic: US Presidential Election (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Brian Hunt
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5180
Posted: 06 May 2008 at 7:26am | IP Logged | 1  

It's more than that.  Not only did people get loans they could not afford, they didn't understand, or try to understand, the workings of an Adjustable Rate Mortgage.  They took out a subprime ARM at say 4%, but when the initial rate period ended, that interest may have gone up to 6% or even higher.  Depending on the amount of money borrowed, that could increase a monthly payment hundreds of dollars.  So, if the borrowers were already stretched making the initial payments, they were sunk when it came time for the interest rate to go up.

The really sad part is that all of this was spelled out in the loan contracts.  The lenders are partly at fault for lowering the standards for obtaining a loan, but the borrowers are more at fault for not understanding the contract.

That's only part of the problem.  The other part is that the economy started slowing down and people's incomes stagnated, or declined.  Some found themselves out of work.  When that happens what was an affordable payment becomes a problem.  I know many people that bought homes in my area when prices were high out of the fear that if they continued to rise, they'd never be able to afford a home.  Home values were escalating by $200,000 or more in one year.  ARMs were only a small part of the problem.  Interest only loans were the most prevalent because they offered the lowest payment on $600,000 properties (the average for a single family home in my neighborhood at one point).

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Ed Love
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 October 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2711
Posted: 06 May 2008 at 7:43am | IP Logged | 2  

I had an ARM and I was fairly happy with it. It was always lower than the
Fixed Rate and it could only adjust by 1% or less any given year and there
was an overall cap as well that it would never get above. So, while my
housepayment might and did increase on any given year, it never jumped
by hundreds. The first year it went up by $20. Some years, the payment
dropped. Feds cut the interest rates? Cool, I could look forward to my rate
dropping. I refinanced last year in order to free up some cash for some
house projects and got a fixed rate. It's a decent rate but it's still more
than I ever paid over the ten years I had the ARM.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Jeff Gillmer
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1920
Posted: 06 May 2008 at 7:56am | IP Logged | 3  

I'm in the position where you were Ed.  My 2 year ARM started at 3.75%.  2 years ago it went up to 4.75%, and last month it didn't change at all.  So, for another 2 years I'm at the same mortage payment (actually it went up $4 per month because property taxes went way up).  Even with excellent credit, I couldn't get a fixed loan at this rate. 

Let me guess, your initial loan was thru your Credit Union?

Back to Top profile | search
 
Ed Love
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 October 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2711
Posted: 06 May 2008 at 8:16am | IP Logged | 4  

No. Strangely enough it was through General Motors (the Real Estate
agents picked the loan company out). They immediately sold my loan to
Countrywide which also worked out to my benefit as my 2nd month
payment somehow got credited as being paid. According to GM my
payments were to start in October and to send it to Countrywide and
Countrywide insisted that October was paid for, that I started my
payments with them in November. As long as everyone was happy, I
wasn't going to complain.

'Course, now that I'm staring unemployment in the face, it's a little scary.
But, my brother lives with me so I have a built in buyer if I need to rid
myself of the house. But the severance check gives me about a year to
panic.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Avatar
Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36443
Posted: 06 May 2008 at 9:14am | IP Logged | 5  

 Mike O'Brien wrote:

I don't know that it was loose requirements that caused the current situation - it was the baloon loans that were given out - you pay $X now and then something mutter grumble in the future... it turns out that it was $XXXXX - and these people couldn't make the payments.

Now - this is what I'm alluding to above - some will say - hey - too bad - free market - live and learn!   And while I'm not saying people should get something for nothing, or be allowed to keep something they didn't pay for, I think it's fair to suggest that the terms of these loans were just bad business, and I could sleep at night with regulations in place to prevent such loans from going through.

Absolutely.  Totally agree.  I even changed the font of your "mutter grumble"!

Back to Top profile | search
 
William McCormick
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 February 2006
Posts: 3297
Posted: 06 May 2008 at 9:20am | IP Logged | 6  

The really sad part is that all of this was spelled out in the loan contracts.  The lenders are partly at fault for lowering the standards for obtaining a loan, but the borrowers are more at fault for not understanding the contract.

*********

Contracts from mortgage companies are written up by people with financial and/or legal training. You cannot possibly expect borrowers to go in and and understand everything in a loan contract the same way that the lender does. It should be a lenders responsibility to make damn sure everything is clear before they allow anyone to sign. Most of these people couldn't afford a lawyer to go over the contract with them.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9109
Posted: 06 May 2008 at 10:52am | IP Logged | 7  

Zogby Tracking has Obama winning NC by 14 points and winning IN by 2:  http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/ind ex.html

They've gotten remarkably more accurate as the primary has worn on.  They picked PA dead on.

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Bodin
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar
Purveyor of Rare Items

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3911
Posted: 06 May 2008 at 11:00am | IP Logged | 8  

 Wiliam McCormick wrote:
Contracts from mortgage companies are written up by people with financial and/or legal training. You cannot possibly expect borrowers to go in and and understand everything in a loan contract the same way that the lender does. It should be a lenders responsibility to make damn sure everything is clear before they allow anyone to sign. Most of these people couldn't afford a lawyer to go over the contract with them.

Any time you sign a contract you are engaging in a legal agreement -- it is up to you to make sure you understand the terms of that agreement before you sign (with "you" meaning the individual, not YOU specifically, William). 

When the shiny, happy, cute, well-dressed loan officer smiles and asks "do you have any questions," it's up to YOU to ask if something is unclear.  As a buyer, if there is something in the mortgage contract that you don't understand, then that is YOUR problem, and you have two choices:  Wait until the issue is fully explained to you by the lending institution and make sure that you are comfortable with what the meaning is, or back off and decide that this is an agreement that you do NOT want to engage in.

It's that simple.

Now, in practice, it IS tough to read EVERY word in all the mortgage contracts that are carted-out for you to sign.  In that respect, our family was pretty lucky -- my wife is an editor, she's a fast reader, she asks LOTS of questions, and she expects solid answers.  It probably took us a lot longer than it does for most people to get through the mortgage signing process, but we were absolutely sure that there were NO surprises waiting for us after signing.

Of course, being the practical guy I am, I always follow this one simple rule before signing ANY contract (especially mortgage paperwork):  Look at every page and make sure you don't see the word "soul"; if you do, read that section carefully to ensure that it does not indicate anything about selling one's soul, or anything about a contract with Satan.

So far, that simple practice has kept me from getting into any real trouble!

;-)



Edited by John Bodin on 06 May 2008 at 11:01am
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
Posted: 06 May 2008 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | 9  

Turning away from the Mortgage Crisis and back to the DNC's Crisis of Inifinite Primaries . . . here's a David Brooks editorial that describes the different political styles of Clinton and Obama:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/06/opinion/06brooks.html?ex=1 367812800&en=4ccc039b2410208b&ei=5124&partner=pe rmalink&exprod=permalink

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Christopher Alan Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 October 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2787
Posted: 06 May 2008 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 10  

Zogby Tracking has Obama winning NC by 14 points and winning IN by 2: 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I hope you didn't bet on those numbers. Zogby also had Obama winning California by 13 and a tie in Ohio.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
Posted: 06 May 2008 at 3:06pm | IP Logged | 11  

I hope you didn't bet on those numbers. Zogby also had Obama winning California by 13 and a tie in Ohio.

Shit! There goes my mortgage . . . .

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar
Official JB Historian

Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
Posted: 06 May 2008 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | 12  

Want to bet on it, Geoff?
Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 1093 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login