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Al Cook
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Posted: 14 May 2008 at 8:19pm | IP Logged | 1  

How is the Superdelegate system better or worse than the Electoral College
system?
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Thomas Moudry
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Posted: 14 May 2008 at 9:03pm | IP Logged | 2  

I heard Sen. Obama speak in Louisville this past Monday night, and I was
thoroughly impressed. It was an amazing event that truly inspired me.
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 14 May 2008 at 9:06pm | IP Logged | 3  

How is the Superdelegate system better or worse than the Electoral College system?

Well, it's worse in that it doesn't follow the will of the people - a super-delegate can vote for whomever they like, whereas, at least in theory, members of the Electoral College vote in accordance with the popular votes in their state.

However - The Superdelegates are not part of the general election - they're just part of the Democratic Party's nominating system.  They help pick the candidate that will run in the fall in the general election.

How do you guys pick your candidates in Canada, Al?

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Joel Tesch
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Posted: 14 May 2008 at 9:25pm | IP Logged | 4  

"However - The Superdelegates are not part of the general election - they're just part of the Democratic Party's nominating system.  They help pick the candidate that will run in the fall in the general election."

Mike, that's a VERY important distinction that I think a lot of international people overlook when talking about the "will of the people."  This is just the set up of one particular political party...



Edited by Joel Tesch on 14 May 2008 at 9:27pm
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 14 May 2008 at 9:58pm | IP Logged | 5  

 Mike O'Brien wrote:
I like how it was announced today that Obama will bail out Clinton's campaign.  Good ol' Obama!


Did he really say that?  I'd heard he was floating that idea, but I can't find a link saying he's announced he definitely intends to do it. 

At any rate, it is a terrible idea, and I hope you are wrong about Obama stating he will do it.  People who are donating money to Obama are doing it with the intent that he use it to run for President, not pay off Clinton's debts.  If I was an Obama donor, I'd be pissed to see my contribution being used this way. 

It is also fundamentally stupid on Obama's part.  Clinton has not quit the race yet, and is continuing to add to her debt every day.  If he really agrees to pay off her debt, he is essentially helping her finance her continued campaign against him.  How dumb is that?  It means the longer she stays in the race, the more money she is taking away from the resources he can use against McCain.  It makes her continued campaign against him destructive on a whole other level.
  


Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 14 May 2008 at 9:59pm
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 14 May 2008 at 10:05pm | IP Logged | 6  

No, no, Jason - good points - (and I say that as a guy who has sent Obama a few bucks!) - no I only read the headline - not the article - I admit, I don't know the details - but I do know that after the nomination, the winner usually helps the runner up pay off their debt as a gentlemanly act.

I think the point of the article - and the others that have sprung up are - Hillary is totally out.  No one other than Hillary (& her biggest fans Rush and Hannity!!) think she still is any sort of contender.

I LOVE the TIME cover this week!  (Pic of Obama with headline "And the Winner is...         & nbsp;     we're pretty sure this time!")  also - he's on the new Esquire - and it's an article from a guy who isn't sold on Obama - not another fawning piece, so might be of note to some of you who aren't sold yet, but don't want to vote McCain in the fall...  Plus?  Esquire has been on fire lately - required reading!!

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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 14 May 2008 at 10:21pm | IP Logged | 7  

For Obama it might be worth paying off Clinton's debts in exchange for her agreeing to quit right now, but even that is debatable.  It would come down to whether it's worth spending that much money to buy probably one less month of her campaigning against him and the contention/negativity that entails.  I'm not sure it would be worth it at this point.

Is it really true the winner traditionally helps the runner-up?  Are there past examples where that has been done?  In this case I think it would be foolish.  Clinton has chosen to stay in the race when it is now extremely unlikely she will be nominated.  She has chosen to continue spending millions to do so.  What she is essentially doing is gambling a pile of money on an extreme long shot.  That's her choice, but she's not using the best judgment and should not be bailed out. 
 
Clinton supporters claim her continued campaign does not hurt the party.  One way that it clearly does is that it uses up resources that could be used to elect a Democrat in the fall.  By soliciting donations to continue running against Obama, Clinton is decreasing the amount of available donations later in the fall.  Donors will be tapped out or have less to give because they've given so much to her now.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 14 May 2008 at 10:34pm | IP Logged | 8  

Obama can't pay down Clinton's debt. All he can basically do is ask his supporters to donate to Clinton, so that she can use those funds to pay off her loan. But that could be money that could go to the general election funds.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-money14-2008may14 ,0,1137125.story

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Sean Blythe
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Posted: 14 May 2008 at 10:39pm | IP Logged | 9  

Jason and Mike:

That's actually not how it works. Obama's campaign is legally not allowed
to transfer funds to Clinton's -- he can't just pay off her debt with his
campaign fund.

It's a fundraising thing. He'd end up doing private fundraising events and
sending emails on her behalf, and it's a fairly common occurrence at the
end of primaries. The historic length of this one has inflated her debt
enormously, however, and has drawn extra attention to the process.

This is a pretty good overview of her options.
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 14 May 2008 at 11:01pm | IP Logged | 10  

So instead of being worth $100 million the Clintons will be left with $90 million. Boo woo. 

Edited by Joe Zhang on 14 May 2008 at 11:01pm
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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Posted: 14 May 2008 at 11:04pm | IP Logged | 11  

"Do you know of a book that was written last year that concluded that Scandinavians were the most independent people on earth? They simply let the government take care of the life things, which gives them the time to wander around in the forest and go on holidays. It was in the news a while back but I forgot the name. It might have been Swedish. "

I don't know the name of this particular book. It may have been part of one of the many international surveys done under the auspices of the UN. I know Scandinavia usually scores high on standard of living /quality of life surveys.

As far as I understand it the argument is that Scandinavians in general have more leisure time (we have between 4 and 6 weeks of paid vacation and a 37,5 hour work week), and with higher relative wages (and higher minimum wages)  there is no need to work overtime to pay for basic services, our disposable income is higher. We also have universal healthcare and health "insurance". There is little violent crime, and there are few obvious schisms in society. Our press also generally scores higher on "freedom of the press" issues than the US (Which is ironic given that we have weaker free speech laws and many newspapers, in Norway at least, receive government subsidies.) Our freedom to travel (in the world) is less restricted than that ofUS citizens. Etc.

In short we have the time, the opportunity, the piece of mind and the space to enjoy our freedom in practice. (Generally speaking. We still have a lot of poor people who don't have full access to that level of economically guaranteed freedom.)

The US may have greater freedom in theory, (Just reading the bill of rights tells me that you do) but fredom in practice requires something more substantial. It requires the ability to actually exercise those theoretical rights. (which, in my view, is the difference between Liberalism, that seems content to argue for the theoretical freedom produced by the absence of government, and Social Liberalism that uses a bigger government to ensure freedoms in practice at the potential cost of freedom in theory. But I'm not a Social Liberal, so don't trust my definitions.)

I think we Scandinavians might be a bit too welcoming of the results in studies like the book you mention, it is after all very flattering to be on the top of a "good" list. But the core issue of the argument you mentioned is that a certain economic freedom  across the board guarantees personal freedom. The more people who have a decent personal economy, enough to improve not just standard of living but  - indirectly- quality of life, the more people who are "free" (provided that the government supports those freedoms.)

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 14 May 2008 at 11:06pm | IP Logged | 12  

First - I agree with Joe - the Clinton's need more money like I need a third a-hole - (er, uh... I gots some 'splainin' to do!) - but Sean nailed what I was floundering at - I knew there was a finer point to it.

In all fairness - I hadn't researched it - I knew the history of doing this, and saw the headline & threw it out there hoping someone who knew more would run with it.

Yay for Sean for knowing!  Boo for Jason for calling me on it!  heh...

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