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Kevin Brown Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 31 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 9106
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| Posted: 20 May 2008 at 6:56am | IP Logged | 1
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By the way, for those of you interested, here's a site in which you can ask Super Delegates to stop being uncommitted or to switch to your candidate:
https://www.lobbydelegates.com/default.aspx
I've already sent off a couple of emails asking some of the uncommitteds to got for Obama.
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Knut Robert Knutsen Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 22 September 2006 Posts: 7374
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| Posted: 20 May 2008 at 7:34am | IP Logged | 2
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I think McCain has lost a lot of his shine over the last 8 years, mostly because of the stuff he's had to do to remain the "next in line". I'm still hoping for a clean Obama/ McCain fight where McCain "redeems" himself (gets clear and firm on what used to be the issues that made him seem like a good "uniter" and a man of principle. The kind that even Democrats would respect. ) A Clinton/McCain fight is guaranteed to be a lot of blood and mud.
Even if I don't agree with McCain's politics, in the 2000 primaries he seemed like a decent guy with a clear head and a nuanced approach to foreign policy. A man firm in his principles, and not bad principles either. A man willing and able to face his own shortcomings and remedy them. As far as Republican candidates go, he seemed like a guy the left could live with or reason with.
But that sort of changed. At least that's the impression I get from the media. And that's too bad.
Before every election (in my country and yours, or any other) I always hope that the choice will be between inspiring, principled and intelligent men with the ability to look deep into the issues and find the best choices, even if it means choosing somebody else's solution. Choices that truly inspire their respective followers, separated only by what policies they believe to be best for the country.
Is it wrong of me to still hope that this is what will happen in the final rounds of this election?
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Mike O'Brien Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 20 May 2008 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 3
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Scott - I'm all for you voting your beliefs, and if he's too left for you, than you should vote McCain - but earlier on, I asked about one's ability to vote for someone "racist" and you replied that you couldn't vote for a racist, and that's the corner I was talking about.
But, in the end, it sounds like we're on the same page - this he-said, she-said stuff is just trivial - it's the politics that matter, and I respect your desire for a candidate who supports your beliefs, politically.
Kevin - that article is the BEST! Barack Black Eagle - I love it! Can you imagne...? If he got elected and the native Americans were finally shown a little respect? Wow...!!!!
Tom - Thanks!
Adam - the whole thing - video and text is found here.
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Michael Myers Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 28 December 2004 Posts: 831
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| Posted: 20 May 2008 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 4
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Regarding any such Michelle Obama video as the link would seem to suggest, I'd tend to echo Knut's observation that the video simply wouldn't match the hype.
As to Mike's theoretical, it's difficult to say. I won't be voting for the Democrat nominee, but if I were inclined? No, what a candidate's husband or wife has to say ...even along those lines...wouldn't sway me from casting a ballot for a certain candidate. Cindy McCain being exhibit A, though I don't quite see myself coming home as I'm expected to, this time around. Anyway, it's easy to say it wouldn't sway me and seems a touch disingenuous on my part.
I do know that my wife, a lifelong Democrat, surprised me by her reaction to the Wright controversy and her overall negative reaction to Michelle Obama. As those who have donated to Obama's campaign know, during the primaries they haven't exactly been shy about filling your mailbox (no different with any campaign). One variety of this email, during the early primary season, came often in the form of reminders to get out the vote via organizing, etc. When I got the email announcing an upcoming Obama Rally, I told my wife and gave the dates. If she was interested, I'd be interested in going, too. Great! Then I corrected myself and explained that Michelle Obama would actually be the anchoring speaker. Not so great. I then got an earful about what amounted to the "vibe" she got from Michelle Obama. Offhand, I don't recall if this was before or after the remarks about being proud of her country, but it's a sentiment I've since heard echoed both in the workplace and socially.
Now, this may well have more to do with my region (heavily Hispanic, which went with Senator Clinton in the Texas primary/caucus) or even Senator Obama's ability to inspire at a personal level overshadowing that of his wife's lack of presence, but I can't honestly see Michelle Obama as a net benefit to his campaign. At best, from diehard Democrats of the university set, I only hear sentiments to the effect that what others say isn't what Senator Obama says and that he's going to be the nominee. Even a video failing to live up to the hype of Republican pundits might feed into whatever it is my wife and acquaintances are going on about when the topic of Michelle Obama comes up.
Edited by Michael Myers on 20 May 2008 at 9:37am
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Michael Myers Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 28 December 2004 Posts: 831
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| Posted: 20 May 2008 at 9:14am | IP Logged | 5
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No, my argument is that great theoretical freedom that can't be enjoyed in practice is of less practical value than less theoretical freedom that can be enjoyed in practice (to a greater extent than the former.)
________
Gee, Knut, take pity. We've got sixteen-hour workdays and even you've commented on my lack of brevity.
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5833
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| Posted: 20 May 2008 at 9:21am | IP Logged | 6
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At that point, Obama will be considered damaged goods and the Democrats will be preparing for 2012 where Obama won't even be considered. Obama made a huge mistake running now. Had he waited until he had more experience, he could have been a serious contender. My guess is if he hadn't been a part of this, Clinton would have made him her running mate. Then after 8 years as the VP, he would be more seasoned and ready for the Presidency. After November 2008, he'll never have that chance in the future.
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SER: How would experience have helped Obama? He would have to have run as a completely different candidate. We are also assuming that experience is what will decide the election. I think this election will be a referendum on Bush and McCain is in deep crap by being as supportive of Bush and his policies as he has been. I mean, even Al Gore distanced himself more from Clinton when he ran in 2000 and McCain isn't even Bush's VP!
Many have argued that the Democratic primary is the real *general* election and that's why it was so hard fought -- the candidates knew that whoever won it would win the White House.
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Mike O'Brien Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 20 May 2008 at 9:25am | IP Logged | 7
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Carefull SER - don't fall into the trap of agreeing on the experience factor - remember - in terms of elected office - Obama has more experience to Hillary.
It's a buzz term that caught on, but it's best not to legitimize it by repeating it.
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Mike O'Brien Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 20 May 2008 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 8
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Keep this great American in your thoughts and prayers.
Ted Kennedy.
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Jodi Moisan Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 February 2008 Location: United States Posts: 6808
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| Posted: 20 May 2008 at 3:39pm | IP Logged | 9
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I was so sorry to hear about this, my dad is a big Kennedy man and my Mom passed away with a brain tumor, so this will be very hard on him. My thoughts are with the Kennedy family. Sadness for all my fellow Democrats.
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Thom Price Byrne Robotics Member
LHomme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7592
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| Posted: 20 May 2008 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | 10
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Obama won't win in a landslide, but he'll win handily.
***
This will depend entirely on how many of the (give or take) 16 million voters who supported Clinton; Obama's supporters seem to just assume that they will follow like lemming anyone who has a D next to their name when it comes time to vote, but I'm skeptical.
At this point the writing is on the wall for Clinton -- her chances of securing the nomination are slim-to-none, barring a major Obama catastrophe that causes super-delegates to swing their votes. And yet Democrats in certain states continue voting for her in large sums, even when it's clear that it's futile. It's hard for me to see this as anything other than a vote against Obama; how many of these voters are going to reconsider in the general election, and how many will be swayed by McCain or will simply forgo the election entirely?
Edited by Thom Price on 20 May 2008 at 7:13pm
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Bill Wiist Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1555
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| Posted: 20 May 2008 at 8:16pm | IP Logged | 11
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Even though Oregon may go for Obama, a whopping 62% of Oregon
Democrats say they want the contest to continue:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/20/exit-polls-v oters-want-
the-democratic-race-to-continue/
Amazing.
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Joel Tesch Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 2834
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| Posted: 20 May 2008 at 8:30pm | IP Logged | 12
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"Keep this great American in your thoughts and prayers."
I'm sorry to hear about his tumor...and I do hope he beats this. But I'll never call Ted Kennedy a great American.
Edited by Joel Tesch on 20 May 2008 at 8:30pm
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