Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 1093 Next >>
Topic: US Presidential Election (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Michael Huber
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 August 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 3338
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 9:31pm | IP Logged | 1  

I read an article from Ken Blackwell of the Washington SUn, and it's an opinion piece, but it's gonna scare a lot of people ranging from the middle to the right.

Ken Blackwell - Columnist for the New York Sun  

 

    It's an amazing time to be alive in America. We're in a year of firsts in this presidential election: the first viable woman candidate; the first viable African-American candidate; and, a candidate who is the first front running freedom fighter over 70. The next president of America will be a first.    
    We won't truly be in an election of firsts, however, until we judge every candidate by where they stand We won't arrive where we should be until we no longer talk about skin color or gender.    

    Now that Barack Obama steps to the front of the Democratic field, we need to stop talking about his race, and start talking about his policies and his politics.  
    The reality is this: Though the Democrats will not have a nominee until August, unless Hillary Clinton drops out, Mr. Obama is now the frontrunner, and its time America takes a closer and deeper look at him. 
    Some pundits are calling him the next John F. Kennedy. He's not. He's the next George McGovern. And it's time people learned the facts. 

    Because the truth is that Mr. Obama is the single most liberal senator in the entire U.S. Senate. He is more liberal than Ted Kennedy, Bernie Sanders, or Mrs. Clinton.    Never in my life have I seen a presidential frontrunner whose rhetoric is so far removed from his record. Walter Mondale promised to raise our taxes, and he lost. George McGovern promised military weakness, and he lost. Michael Dukakis promised a liberal domestic agenda, and he lost. 
      Yet Mr. Obama is promising all those things, and he's not behind in the polls. Why? Because the press has dealt with him as if he were in a beauty pageant.

    Mr. Obama talks about getting past party, getting past red and blue, to lead the United States of America. But let's look at the more defined strokes of who he is underneath this superficial "beauty."  
      Start with national security, since the president's most important duties are as commander-in-chief. Over the summer, Mr. Obama talked about invading Pakistan, a nation armed with nuclear weapons; meeting without preconditions with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who vows to destroy Israel and create another Holocaust; and Kim Jong II, who is murdering and starving his people, but emphasized that the nuclear option was off the table against terrorists - something no president has ever taken off the table since we created nuclear weapons in the 1940s. Even Democrats who have worked in national security condemned all of those remarks. Mr. Obama is a foreign-policy novice who would put our national security at risk. 
    Next, consider economic policy For all its faults, our health care system is the strongest in the world. And free trade agreements, created by Bill Clinton as well as President Bush, have made more goods more affordable so that even people of modest means can live a life that no one imagined a generation ago . Yet Mr. Obama promises to raise taxes on "the rich." How to fix Social Security? Raise taxes. How to fix Medicare? Raise taxes. Prescription drugs? Raise taxes. Free college? Raise taxes. Socialize medicine? Raise taxes. His solution to everything is to have government take it over. Big Brother on steroids, funded by your paycheck.  
    Finally, look at the social issues. Mr. Obama had the audacity to open a stadium rally by saying, "All praise and glory to God!" but says that Christian leaders speaking for life and marriage have "hijacked" - hijacked - Christianity. He is pro-partial birth abortion, and promises to appoint Supreme Court justices who will rule any restriction on it unconstitutional. He espouses the abortion views of Margaret Sanger, one of the early advocates of racial cleansing. His spiritual leaders endorse homosexual marriage, and he is moving in that direction. In Illinois, he refused to vote against a statewide ban - ban - on all handguns in the state. These are radical left, Hollywood, and San Francis co values, not Middle America values. 
    The real Mr. Obama is an easy target for the general election. Mrs. Clinton is a far tougher opponent. But Mr. Obama could win if people don't start looking behind his veneer and flowery speeches. His vision of "bringing America together" means saying that those who disagree with his agenda for America are hijackers or warmongers. Uniting the country means adopting hi s liberal agenda and abandoning any conflicting beliefs.        
    But right now everyone is talking about how eloquent of a speaker he is and - yes - they're talking about his race. Those should never be the factors on which we base our choice for president. Mr. Obama's radical agenda sets him far outside the American mainstream, to the left of Mrs. Clinton.
 

 

Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Huber
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 August 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 3338
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 9:33pm | IP Logged | 2  

I think Hillary would be a tougher opponent in November.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18272
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 9:35pm | IP Logged | 3  

If you pick the right metric and the right black/white axis on left/right positions, you can paint anybody as the most anything.  That's how Kerry got painted that way.  Don't fall for it.

As for Obama's foreign policy - NOW you're hitting the right whack-a-mole!  Fuck what his wife and preacher says, or if he's circumcised, or whether he's ever snorted cocaine off an underage circus performer's left thigh - the issues matter more than if someone wears white after Labor Day or ever put a feminine hygiene device on a Christmas tree.  I may disagree with your opinion, but if you formed it from clay and not horseshit, then you are rising above the current political discourse and for that I would be honored to shake your hand.

As for Obama's foreign policy:  His foreign policy statements fill me with hope that we can begin to erase the stain of the last eight years.  It's the primary reason I'd vote for him.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Huber
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 August 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 3338
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 9:39pm | IP Logged | 4  

I got to hit the sack, I'll try and look in on this tomorrow guys.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar
Official JB Historian

Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 9:45pm | IP Logged | 5  

Jeez, I wouldn't put too much faith in that article - the guy who wrote it has some serious logic issues.

Where to begin?

He's worried about us invading Pakistan to get OBL.  First off?  To get OBL.  Shaaaaaame on the current administration for dropping that frickin' ball!  But next?  Sure they have nukes.  But they don't have ICBMs.  And fact of the matter, I can't see them not working with us in the long run; if anything, to try to get us to support them over India.

He's worried that Obama won't nuke terrorists?  How do you nuke a terrorist?  You nuke cities.  Not terrorists.  There's no terrorist city. 

Seriously - this guy is questioning Obama's political ideas?

Next, he's worried about Obama taxing the rich - I get that - he's against taxes - who isn't? - so any tax is a bad tax and Obama should be ashamed, etc.  But he's not creating some new tax for the rich - he's undoing Bush's tax cuts for the rich, which were a terrible burden for America and for the working class of America.  He's not creating some new burden for America - he's fixing something that Bush broke.  As much as the working stiff doesn't like to see FICA on his paystub, I think he'll realize the difference between what Obama's doing and what this guy is saying.

I mean - sure - you don't like taxes?  Ok.  Let's all stop paying them.  Good luck with those schools, bridges, roads, libraries, police, firefighters, military, etc and so on.  No one likes paying them, but we're deeply ingrained in a system that relies on them.

Finally - this nut is all mad that Obama is ok with same-sex marriage.  (Uh, actually, he's not.  He's for civil unions, but let's work with the point we've got here)   What this shows is the author's agenda and personal hatreds.  Power to Obama for being more open-minded.

And, yes, I do believe that there are a lot of decent Christians out there - but I don't think the fundementalist nuts - meaning the author of this piece, or members of the current administration - are representative of these nuts, and I agree with Obama that the good name of Christianity is being tarnished by these fringe-dwellers who have so vocally represented the faith for the last 30 years or so.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18272
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | 6  

Ken Blackwell should go back to fashion commentary and leave politics to people with sense.

(Being deliberately ignorant there.  It's a post-modern thing.  Just like pointing out something is post-modern is the new post-post-pre-modern paradigm.)

(Sometimes I'm not deliberately ignorant, but I have to rely on others to point that out.  Think about it.)

Back to Top profile | search
 
Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4636
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 9:56pm | IP Logged | 7  

 Ken Blackwell article wrote:
Mr. Obama's radical agenda sets him far outside the American mainstream, to the left of Mrs. Clinton.


Aside from the stuff about willingness to meet with "rogue" foreign leaders without preconditions and the unwillingness to use nuclear weapons against terrorists, Clinton's policies are pretty much identical to the Obama positions listed.  So how is it that he is "to the left" of her?

Regarding the nuclear weapons... can anyone imagine a hypothetical situation in which nuclear weapons would be effective against terrorists?  I can't.  It's a silly straw man thing to attack him on.  No President is ever going to use nuclear weapons against terrorists.  Candidates who say they would consider it are just engaging in posturing.

I like how Blackwell sticks the bit about handguns in his "hijacking Christianity" paragraph.  One can argue that the Bible is against abortion and homosexual marriage, but I sure don't remember the passage in the New Testament about the right to own handguns. 


Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 21 May 2008 at 9:57pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14890
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 9:58pm | IP Logged | 8  

I thought Biden summed it up well. You talk, you go to war, or you maintain
the status quo. Options 2 and 3 don't seem to be working that well. I don't
understand why Obama is being harped on for talking without
preconditions. We will only talk to Iran and North Korea if they make
concessions, which we will establish by.... not talking? They'll just have to
guess what we want?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4636
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 10:08pm | IP Logged | 9  

 Michael Huber wrote:
I think Hillary would be a tougher opponent in November.


I'm starting to come around to agreeing with that, unfortunately.  If Obama has any chance at all he's going to have to figure out how to come off the defensive and attack McCain, and alter the public's perception of him.  It's not enough to simply respond to McCain's charges, he needs to redefine McCain.  Kerry lost because Bush was able to define him negatively, and McCain is doing the same to Obama so far.  Obama needs to hit back.  Clinton obviously knows how to do that, but I've yet to see any evidence Obama does.

I've said many times that I don't understand why Obama is not hitting McCain on the war more.  The war is unpopular, a majority of people believe it was a mistake.  One would think "McCain has poor judgment, McCain led us into a quagmire in Iraq" would be a good theme.  "If McCain was wrong about the Iraq War, do you trust him to make the right decision about Iran?"  The ad writes itself. 

"McCain is a flip-flopper you can't trust" is also an obvious attack... the many changes in positions he's taken in the past 8 years make Kerry look inflexible and resolute by comparison. 


Back to Top profile | search
 
Daniel Presedo
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 199
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 10:16pm | IP Logged | 10  

I would consider foreign policy *stains* stretch further back.
This rhetoric that Bush is the worst foreign policy prez just goes to prove what lazy thinkers people can be... Clinton (Somalia, bombing Serbia) years, Carter would not help Iran's Shah withstand Khomeini's revolution. Carter bears responsibility for a lot of the unrest in the middle east.

>>he's undoing Bush's tax cuts for the rich<<
What is rich to you, what salary is rich? $25,50,100k/year?



Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 10:19pm | IP Logged | 11  

I don't get the backlash against driver's licences - don't we want safe
licenced drivers on the streets?

That backlash is really poorly thougth out in my opinion.


Mike:

I suspect for many much of the backlash against illegal immigrants is
often veiled racism (note -- I am not accusing Brian of that, in fact I am
sure that is not the basis for his position). I do think that there are some
that feel that illegals take advantage of the system (by receiving charity
care and the like) and believe thats unfair -- but I am think the answer to
that is to have them come out of the shadows. Reasonable minds may
disagree. But I do think if the immigrants were white this would not be
the issue it is.

One of the sad truths about america is that Racism is persistent and its is
often hidden. To my mind there are two kinds of racism -- the first
where one believes that some group is inferior or lesser -- is obvious and
easily defeated by people of all political stripes. The second form is less
obvious and thus more dangerous -- it is not a belief that another group
is lesser -- its subtle -- on a subconscious level -- and thus harder to
see unless it is directed against you. Obama referenced this in his "More
Perfect Union" speech when he threw grandma under the bus. But it was
Obama's speech on race that has me really rooting for him, even though
his tax policy will hit me hard in the wallet and ideologically I am a low
tax, small government sort of guy. But if Obama is elected I believe that
there will be a discussion on race in this country -- I believe his election
could bring about change by addressing America's original sin -- slavery.
But it will only happen if we remember that bigotry in all its forms is
insidious -- meaning white prejudice against black, black prejudice
against white, and so on and so forth.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5744
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 10:28pm | IP Logged | 12  

Next, he's worried about Obama taxing the rich - I get that - he's
against taxes - who isn't? - so any tax is a bad tax and Obama should be
ashamed, etc. But he's not creating some new tax for the rich - he's
undoing Bush's tax cuts for the rich, which were a terrible burden for
America and for the working class of America. He's not creating some
new burden for America - he's fixing something that Bush broke. As
much as the working stiff doesn't like to see FICA on his paystub, I think
he'll realize the difference between what Obama's doing and what this
guy is saying.


Mike:

Its not the tax cuts that "hurt" -- it was the tax cuts with increased
government spending, one of the many fuck ups by the Bush
Administration. As for Obama's tax increase he will not be returning the
taxes to the level they were before the Bush Tax cuts -- he has proposed
higher taxes than were in effect during the Clinton administration,
increases that will hit me in the wallet and we are far from rich (though
we are comfortable).
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 

<< Prev Page of 1093 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login