I agree with Geoff, Re: Bruce - I hear where you're coming from Bruce - (and I guess this addresses Matt's point, as well) - but the system is not set up the same as it was back when our grandparents came through Ellis island - I'm sure a lot of people would love to come in legally and properly, but the system is flawed.

Many do come in legally - many do not because they can not afford to pay the bribes needed, or they do not understand the byzantine process of getting in, or they are stopped by quota-fufillment, etc.

My point is that I don't think people - well, at least the ones I know, which may be a small minority - antecdotal eveidence is never to be trusted - but the ones I know would love to do it correctly, and do not want to flaunt the law, nor be criminals.

Blanket amnesty leads to more illegal immigrants. It's already been tried.

Mike O'Brien wrote: My point is that I don't think people - well, at least the ones I know, which may be a small minority - antecdotal eveidence is never to be trusted - but the ones I know would love to do it correctly, and do not want to flaunt the law, nor be criminals.

Agreed.  I think we all feel that way, Mike, it's just the "how" that we're disagreeing on.  Like I said, I think blanket amnesty, as has been proffered as a solution, is short term thinking at best; a way to wipe all those numbers off the books and get people on record for tax purposes.  But with the numbers of illegal immigrants literally streaming into the country, what do we do in five years?  Another total amnesty?  Won't that just encourage more of the same behavior?

Yes, agreed the laws have to change but disagree that the ways to change them that have been posited are that much better than what is currently being done...which is next to nothing.

But Mike and Geoff, there is a good reason why it's tougher to immigrate now than it was 100 years ago.

Back then, there was a tremendous market for cheap, unskilled labor in the manufacturing and construction industries. I'm not sure the demand for that type of labor exists to the same level today (although I'm certainly no economist.)

I do have sympathy for people who want to come to this country. By and large, I do think they just want better lives for themselves and their families. I don't think illegal immigrants should be demonized.

But I stand by my original point. Just because someone shows up at my doorstep doesn't mean I'm obligated to take them in. A would-be immigrant may only request admission to a country -- he or she may not demand it. And whether intended or not, breaking the laws of your new homeland is disrespectful, in my opinion.

Edit to add: I agree with Christopher and Matt on blanket amnesty. I think that would only encourage more illegal immigration, as people see others being rewarded for breaking the law.

I'm with Geoff - I didn't suggest blanket amnesty either - I think that was first brought up by Bruce.

I do suggest that it's barking up the wrong tree to focus on the "illegal" side of the equation, however. 

Michael Myers - I was refering to bribes in the various home naitons, not here.

Bruce - I would argue, and big business seems to support this  - that there is such a job market for immigrants - in the service industry and labor jobs.  There was a shift in the 90s to hi-tech jobs, which left a void in the service and retail market.  That, combined with the existing labor, farming and construction markets - well - there's a ton of oppertunities.

This is why many politicians have turned a blind eye to immigrants - because it's good for business. And if they're illegal?  You can pay them less.  Big business finally found a way around those pesky minimum wage laws!

Having said that, there are other people who aren't concerned about business and are concerned with, you know, pesky foreigners.  (Note that famed right wing talk show host Michael Savage has a group whose motto is: Borders, Language and Culture.)

The thing that rings most false to me about the immigration "problem" is that it seems to only focus on Latin American immigrants - Mexican especially.  Where's the vitriol against, say, Asian immigrants.  Speaking as a west coast native, I see a lot more immigrants from Asia than from Mexico - though that might be because the Mexicans blend in better as, well, frankly, as recnetly as 150 years ago, where I now sit WAS Mexico.  Where's the ire about Irish Immigrants taking construction jobs? 

It all rings false to me. 

Plus?  I work in health care.  I don't see the illegals swarming into the ER's and clinics the way I hear on the radio all the time.  Maybe I just work in non-immigrant towns or something, but if you listen to Savage, there's no healthcare left after the illegals use it all up.

That man is a fool, by the way.