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Tom French Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 07 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4154
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| Posted: 28 May 2008 at 8:21am | IP Logged | 1
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Price? Magic beans? Giants in the sky?
I was right -- this administration was written by the Brothers Grimm.
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Geoff Gibson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 28 May 2008 at 8:28am | IP Logged | 2
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More like Machievelli Tom . . .
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Kevin Hagerman Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 15 April 2005 Location: United States Posts: 18265
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| Posted: 28 May 2008 at 8:29am | IP Logged | 3
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Absolutely he was used. I totally loved that guy going in. He should have resigned sooner and cut them down by 2004. I think he was honestly torn about what was the best way to serve, and I think he chose dead wrong.
Dunno if you like my opinion any more now, but I hope I made myself clearer. Colin Powell had the moral high ground and he didn't use it - at least not successfully.
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Geoff Gibson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 28 May 2008 at 8:43am | IP Logged | 4
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I think he was honestly torn about what was the best way to serve, and I think he chose dead wrong.
I think you are totally right and I think we are on the same page. And to clear up my point -- its not that I think he had the wool pulled over his eyes -- I think he disagreed at the time and was overruled. Like a good soldier he followed orders, gritting his teeth as he did. The administration, as they have done with our soldiers on the ground, used him as tool -- used the deserved respect that he had earned to further their agenda. I don't think he sold his soul, because he got nothing in exchange. I think he had his soul ripped from him.
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 13041
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| Posted: 28 May 2008 at 8:58am | IP Logged | 5
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Ah, gotcha. Exploited Powell's lifelong commitment as a solider to a cause, as man who lives loyalty day in and out.
Still makes me sad.
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Geoff Gibson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 28 May 2008 at 9:10am | IP Logged | 6
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Still makes me sad.
It is one of many sins for which this Administration should be held accountable.
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Jason Czeskleba Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 30 April 2004 Posts: 4636
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| Posted: 28 May 2008 at 11:34am | IP Logged | 7
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Geoff Gibson wrote:
| I really think she just fucked up. I think the sharpest of people get
confused after talking all day and they say things that with more sleep
and more time to contemplate that they probably wouldn't say
otherwise. |
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As others have pointed out, Clinton's "gaffe" is also more serious (as far as these things go) because it was a scripted remark, not an off-the-cuff comment, so the excuse about lack of sleep and talking all day is not relevant for her.
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Jeff Gillmer Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 30 August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1920
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| Posted: 28 May 2008 at 3:20pm | IP Logged | 8
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"Well, why, all of a sudden, if he had all these grave concerns, did he not raise these sooner? This is one-and-a-half years after he left the administration. And now, all of a sudden, he’s raising these grave concerns that he claims he had. And I think you have to look at some of the facts. One, he is bringing this up in the heat of a presidential campaign. He has written a book and he certainly wants to go out there and promote that book."
Scott McCellan talking about Richard Clarke.
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Geoff Gibson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 28 May 2008 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | 9
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Here's a great editorial by Tom Friedman that is a challenge to the candidates -- similar to something I wrote many pages back and a challenge I wish one of them would take up:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/28/opinion/28friedman.html?ex =1369713600&en=2d8ea931b2ec4211&ei=5124&partner= permalink&exprod=permalink
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 13041
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| Posted: 28 May 2008 at 5:02pm | IP Logged | 10
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It is an illusion cultivated by candidates and elected politicians alike that they are surrounded by the best and brightest. Hillary and her people screwed up, but it was a calculated error.
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Geoff Gibson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 29 May 2008 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 11
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It is an illusion cultivated by candidates and elected politicians alike that they are surrounded by the best and brightest.
I blame David Haberstam. :o)
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Scott Richards Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 22 September 2005 Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 29 May 2008 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | 12
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As others have pointed out, Clinton's "gaffe" is also more serious (as far as these things go) because it was a scripted remark, not an off-the-cuff comment, so the excuse about lack of sleep and talking all day is not relevant for her.
To me that makes it even more relevant for her, not less. If she was on the top of her game (i.e. not suffering from lack of sleep and talking all day) she would have noticed what the speech writers wrote and questioned it.
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