I haven't even BEGUN to be hard on Cheney.  What an embarrassment to his daughter.  What a chance he had to be a crusader.  What a poor excuse for a leader.

You know I was kidding around right Tom?

OK I lied

My problem is I HATE , HATE  , HATE  what Bush/Cheney and their followers have done to this country. I don't have a religion, but I feel about as strong about my country and the ideals it stands for, as some feel about god. I know some on here supported Mr Bush and I honestly don't want to piss them off.  

I had to watch for 8 years this president and his party gut this country financially and morally, I have been assualted by the, "if you don't believe the way we do" you are un-American, and un-important". They used their religion as a weapon. It honestly sickened me. The Bill O'Reilly/ Rush Limbaugh/Tokyo Rose type of propaganda that seems to have taken over the republican party, boggles my mind.

I can't understand a party that lets it's members try to change the constitution to ban gays from marrying, but allows the crimes of this administration  go unanswered. I want to scream to anyone that has voted for Bush, not once, but twice, that turns around and condemns anyone else to, as Keith Obermann put it "Shut the hell up!"

So you see, I am most likely not the best person to have a civil conversation on the topic of politics.

Jodi, that inspired me!

Tom I feel bad now, I was writing my venting letter while you posted your above comment. Please know I do not feel the same way towards all republicans. My brother is one. ............................of course we don't invite him to any family get togethers.

Kidding!!!!!

I want to be proud to be an American

I re-read this in Tom's post and I wanted to address this statement.  I can understand how many things that have happened in this country since 9/11 have caused many to be upset with our government -- but I hope that has not caused us to lose sight of the greatness of our Country.  Do we do things that we should not? Of course, every nation does.  But I believe America is a great nation, made up of people who do care for others, who all want a better life for their children.  Though we may differ on how to accomplish such goals we are not all so different.  In this election we have a man who served his country proudly, sacrificing years of his life as POW.  He wants what is best for every American.  "Opposing" him is a man who is the son of an immigrant.  He is a testament to the fact that America remains a land of opportunity.  He also wants what is best for every American.  They simply have different ideas of how to accomplish those ends.  So I hope Jodi, despite actions by our politicians (on both sides of the political spectrum), you never fail to be proud to be an American. 

I ask because a gay friend of mine, whilst articulating his support for Hillary Clinton*, told me he thought the Clinton's were good on gay rights.

They are.  I've read interviews with Hillary Clinton in the Advocate and saw her in the debate on the Logo channel.  She basically said she can't completely voice her full support because it would alienate a significant portion of the voters but that her support was there.

No major candidate from either party is ever going to come right out for full gay rights.  Even if they full believe in it and intend to pursue it while in office.  It would make them highly un-electable.  That's unfortunate, but true.

Jodi, you are very much welcome in the discussion - sounds like you feel as passionate as the rest of us!  And can express it in a respectful and decent way - and that's all we're looking for.

Of course, you get extra poitns in my book for being a liberal dem Obama supporter, but heck - even I like a few Republicans!  (I'm looking at you, Geoff Gibson!)

She basically said she can't completely voice her full support because it would alienate a significant portion of the voters

PROVING that Hillary has no balls.  If you're for something, SAY it.  If it alienates people, be a politician and SHOW them the way!  Otherwise, it's simply words.

To me, Hillary is nothing more than hot air.

They are.  I've read interviews with Hillary Clinton in the Advocate and saw her in the debate on the Logo channel.  She basically said she can't completely voice her full support because it would alienate a significant portion of the voters but that her support was there.

That strikes me as hollow support, then, but thats my read.  Let me ask you Scott -- where does she stand on DOMA?  I want to be clear -- I am not asking about whether she supports Gay Marriage -- I am asking does she believe DOMA should be law?  Does she support its repeal?

The crimes the Bush/Cheney team has commited in the name of being "American" is not something to be proud of. They were the international face to this country and that did not make me proud to be on their team.

I respect Mr McCain a great deal, I believe his service to this country is to be commended, but he voted with Bush 98% of the time and that I do not respect. As I said I don't have a problem with all republicans, I believe the same way on some of their key issues, I think this country is best when there are "checks and balances". But I will stand by my statement with what Bush/Cheney has done while representing this country, does not make me proud.

Of course, you get extra poitns in my book for being a liberal dem Obama supporter, but heck - even I like a few Republicans!  (I'm looking at you, Geoff Gibson!)

Aw, Mike! You know you're allright for a godless, pinko commie!