I think the important thing to remember here is that I was right.

:)

Carry on!

McCain should bash Bush.

Obama should bash the democrats in Congress.

Obama should bash the democrats in Congress

Why?

Greg:

I'm going to preface this by saying I am not attacking you.  I don't want to take sides between you and Al -- you are both big boys and can work things out by yourselves.  But I think you are missing something that can maybe shine some light on Al's comments. 

A few months ago you articulated a position wherein you stated a general suspicion of any man spending time with children with whom he is not related.  This came up within the context of discussion of the "Pedophile Priests" scandal.  You never recanted that position.  Instead, if memory serves, you based your position on fear for your daughters' safety.  I am blessed to have two daughters and I understand fearing for their safety, so I understand that.  But you articulated a fear not based on facts but based simply on gender.  You did not have an issue with women spending time with unrelated children.   You took a position -- on the record on this message board -- that you distrust unrelated men around children.  Don't you see how this position could make someone question your position on gay men adopting?  Candidly, it informed my misreading of your post (for which I have since apologized). 

All that said, I don't think you are a bad guy.  I think your probably a good man, one who loves his kids so much that you fear for their safety.  Which is, of course, understandable and right.  I ask if you think all of those fears, such as the one you articulated regarding men around kids, are justified?  And if the anwer is no, do you understand how someone could misconstrue what you mean on certain topics? 

They don't need a 2/3 majority for most things

Jodi:

Did you read Matt Taibbi's piece in Rolling Stone pondering whether the congressional and senate democrats have not been tougher on the war because its a wedge issue for the 2008 election?*

*I don't buy that premise.  I think the Democrats have poor leadership in Pelosi and Reid.

"You took a position -- on the record on this message board -- that you distrust unrelated men around children.  Don't you see how this position could make someone question your position on gay men adopting?"

I wouldn't infer that. Going on that logic, someone could also question his position on straight men adopting.

I wouldn't infer that. Going on that logic, someone could also question his position on straight men adopting.

True.  But we weren't discussing adoption by straight men.  We were discussing adoption by gays (including gay men).  And in fairness to Greg when clarifying his intial position he stated he supports gay adoption -- but my point was based on past positions he has taken regarding childless men (in general) being around children.  Based on those statements, and prior to his clarification of his intial statement, I think it was fair to wonder if that informed his opinion on gay men adopting.

OK I tried to be out of this "he said, he said"  fight but Geoff you cut my 2 part response in half.

I am getting that the statement was said "of any man spending time with children with whom he is not related" was someone to be wary of. Also said: "But you articulated a fear not based on facts but based simply on gender.  You did not have an issue with women spending time with unrelated children."

FYI guys on here, go check on the website that tracks molestors, I will say in my community 99.9% of those listed are MEN!!!!!!, there was one woman. She was a woman that was caught having sex with 15 and 16 year old boys.

Unless Greg said "Gay men molest" I say get off his ass. If he said that, then shame on you Greg. If he didn't say that, then shame on you Al for putting that nastiness on him on a public forum.

Gay men do not molest children, pedophiles do. They are NOT one in the same. If that was true then all Hetero men would be likely to molest little girls.

But if you are fighting about the statement that Greg does not trust un attached men who are with children, well tough I do too. Why, because you read about in the paper almost daily. If you think that is unfair that men are looked on that way, again tough, get involved in changing the laws regarding how long a child molester stays in jail. (I am) Get the assholes off the street they are making you all look bad.

Now with all of that being said, I like both Al and Greg so stop the petty bitch fight and stop acting like women.