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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 24 July 2008 at 11:43am | IP Logged | 1  

Bob Herbert writes about Jane Mayer's new book regarding the actions of the Bush Administration, specifically the steps taken in the "War on Terror" that stretch the constitution thin. 
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 24 July 2008 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 2  

But then in the state of the Union he mentioned the "Axis of Evil" implicating the North Korea, Iraq and Iran as though they were joint actors.  That set my spider-sense off.

------------------

Precisely.

I didn't like Bush as President because it had that feeling of "my turn" to it.  He was anointed before the primaries began - he didn't need fund-raisers; people were begging to give him money.  But I HATE Joe Lieberman so much I don't even care if I spelled him name properly, so I didn't really have much love for the Gore campaign.  So I voted for Nader.

By the time the whole fershlugginer election mess was sorted out, I was over the "my turn" thing (after all, Gore was basically running on "my turn" too, while at the same time trying to run AWAY from the Clinton record) and was willing to give the guy a shot.

The first inkling something was wrong was when we apologized to China (over the mid-air "bump" collision tragedy) while insisting we had not apologized.  Seemed a bit outré to me, but whatever.  And the whole energy policy thing seemed suspicious.  But again, whatever.

Like everyone else, I was prepared to eat depleted uranium and poop ammunition for this country on 9/11/2001.  But it didn't take long for that to fade.  The first sign was when all the flags started popping up everywhere.  I don't like these kinds of spontaneous mindsets - it feels like people lining up for their kool-aid.

I've always been a bit leery whenever Saddam Hussein got trotted out for his five minute hate.  I remember Hussein being our ally, and the first time I ever heard his name was in connection with the Iran-Iraq War, and it's no question how we felt about him then.  He was kicking the asses we wanted kicked.

Anyway, my cerebral-spinal fluid went to ice when that State of The Union was delivered.  It wasn't years or months later; it was instant.  I felt like the insanity that threatened to engulf us a few months earlier had been officially embraced at the highest level.

It felt like the terrorists had won.

It's the worst thing I've ever seen, including 9/11.

 

edit: pair of typos



Edited by Kevin Hagerman on 25 July 2008 at 7:50am
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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 24 July 2008 at 12:42pm | IP Logged | 3  

It's the worst thing I've ever seen, including 9/11.

9/11 still is at the top for me.

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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 24 July 2008 at 12:46pm | IP Logged | 4  

Understandable.
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Joel Tesch
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Posted: 24 July 2008 at 6:15pm | IP Logged | 5  

C'mon Kevin...not even close.
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 24 July 2008 at 9:56pm | IP Logged | 6  

Even if Obama loses the election, he might well win the top job in Germany  :)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080725/ap_on_el_pr/obama_german y
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Greg Reeves
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Posted: 24 July 2008 at 10:56pm | IP Logged | 7  

That was perhaps the best contemporary speech I've ever heard.  It awakened feelings and memories about how the world used to see and think of us. I want to see that again.  Of course, dickheads like Glenn Beck have to spin it as nazism and other ridiculous notions.
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Joel Tesch
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Posted: 24 July 2008 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | 8  

Nazism? REALLY? How in the world did he make that connection?
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 24 July 2008 at 11:23pm | IP Logged | 9  

*rolls eyes*
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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Posted: 24 July 2008 at 11:29pm | IP Logged | 10  

What, did he compare it to  a Nuremberg rally?

Hey, I'm just waiting for a "not since Jesse Owens" (Berlin 1936) reference. I've already heard JFK and Reagan mentioned, as well as the "air bridge" and "the wall". I just need Jesse Owens to complete my word bingo row.

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 24 July 2008 at 11:47pm | IP Logged | 11  

With all due respect to Geoff's opinions, I agree with Kevin.

In fact - 9/11 isn't even the worst act of terrorism in America on my list - because it came from outside  - tops in my book is Eric Rudolph's campaign of terror - bombing the Olympics, abortion clinics, gay bars - and, here's what seals the deal - he wasn't from outside - he was one of us - but just as much a crazy fundementalist nut - and (deal sealer coming) he was kept hidden and safe for 5 years, supported by Christian Churches - he even had a couple of Country Music songs written about him!  People sold "Run Rudolph Run" T-Shirts.

It's more easy and comforting to think that "those people" are evil religious nuts, and that we're sane clear thinking decent people.  But then people like Eric Rudolph, or Timmothy McVeigh float around the conversation like a stinky fart.  Or we hear about yet another school shooting, or a gay kid being nailed to a fence, dragged from the back of a truck or shot in the head in the computer lab.  Within the last century, Strange Fruit was still common.

I'm more shocked and disgusted from attacks from within.  Because I want us to be better.

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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 25 July 2008 at 7:51am | IP Logged | 12  

Mike:

I don't think debating levels of terrorism is a particularly useful excercise -- its reprehensible in all forms as is misguided (e.g. violent) religious belief. 

That said my response to Kevin was to the events of 9/11 versus a terrible speech made by the President.  9/11 is particularly personal for me as I didn't see it on TV.  I saw it from my office window in Newark.  I saw the smoke come from the buildings, I saw the towers collapse.  I had three cases venued downtown when the terrorists struck.  The fastest way to get to the Court was the path train.  I was in that station a week before.  I was due to take a deposition in the towers a week after the attack.  I still wonder, from time to time, what saved me?  My cousin worked in the Mercantile Exchange which was "across the street" from the towers.  He saw it from downtown.  He told me he could see people jumping out of the towers.  My brother was working in congress on 9/11, my mother was frantic having heard congress was attacked.  For those of us who lived and worked in and around New York (and D.C.) that was the most horrible time.  I was around ground zero about a week or so after the attack.  And even then it was just not New York.  I was in midtown on the 14th and you could smell the fire.  I'll never forget the smell.  I can't accurately describe it but it was musty and smokey and burned when you inhaled it.  It was a horrible cocktail of smoke, soot, ash and God knows what else.  It was one of the most horrible things I ever experienced. 

So I don't offer this saying one attack is worse than another or that domestic terrorism is not serious.  I can only say what the worst I've experienced and say it was much worse than any speech on television.  I pray 9/11 will always be the worset thing I've ever seen.

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