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Joel Tesch
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Posted: 25 July 2008 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | 1  

If John McCain wins, there will be no taxes!  Yay!

Um.  No.

You're going to get taxed either way

Really? Seriously?

Of course you are going to get taxed either way. What is your point?

No fiscal conservative I've ever heard has ever said we shouldn't get taxed for essential services (unless they're an extremist). It's the extra taxes for needless pork, projects and support for irresponsible behavior that we object to. Take a look at your paycheck and see how much is taken out. Factor that by everyone that gets a paycheck. You see how much in taxes the government is already raking in. They take PLENTY to do all of this and more. The reason they can't/don't is bc they waste the money they already take from us on stupid garbage. What you need to be concerned about is responsible government spending, not raising taxes.

Are you seriously arguing that fiscal conservatives want no taxes and call Obama supporters commies? Stop arguing like a 6th grader...unless perhaps that's all you're capable of. Before I commented that you're better than that...but maybe you're not.

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 25 July 2008 at 9:59pm | IP Logged | 2  

Clearly I'm not.

 

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 25 July 2008 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | 3  

By the way - so, you're like the second guy on this thread today to basically call me a moron, so I went back and looked at where this started - it started with you making a claim that Obama would be bad for the economy, and I asked for specifics and...

Still waiting.

In fact, right from the get go, you gave some dodgy answers, and I replied with some vague terms to coax specifics out of you, and you started in with the digs at my intellect.

But, in all fairness, I'll stick with the moron claim - what the hell, right?  We're both voting for the same guy, he's going to win, anyway, so... whatever - I can take a few insults - I can live with that.

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 25 July 2008 at 10:23pm | IP Logged | 4  

Oh, and to look at the brigher side - notice that between me and Jon and Joel, etc - we're all voting for the same guy, but still debating (er, and commenting on each other's intellegence!) with each other.

And you know what?  That's how it should be.  It's better that we all have various points of view - thinking in lock-step just creeps me out.

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Daniel Presedo
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Posted: 25 July 2008 at 10:24pm | IP Logged | 5  

>>Daniel: Oh, I know all about Savage. I believe people have free will and that outside forces can not be blamed for people's actions, but he's clearly calling for his audience to murder people. In direct terms. No hyperboyle. Have YOU listened to his show?<<

Yes, I do listen to his show and have read his books. You did not answer the question, do you listen to his show? How does Mike Obrien know "all about Savage?"

And please site a transcript or audio of what you claim to be a deliberate call for murder. I am sure the FCC would like a copy as well.

This kind of flagrant disregard for other peoples work without any provocation just irritates me. If you can't prove it (and I know you can't) I would prefer to see comments like that removed from this forum.
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Jeff Gillmer
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Posted: 25 July 2008 at 10:43pm | IP Logged | 6  

The problem isn't that not enough taxes are being collected.  The problem is that Congress (Democrats and Republicans both) have to cut down on the discretionary spending.  We don't need any more "bridges to nowhere".  We don't need Jack Murtha pushing thru projects for his home district that the Pentagon doesn't want or need.

Democrats controlled the congress and overspent like crazy during the Reagan years, and Republicans did the same during the first 6 years of GW Bush's administration.  To blame one party over the other is just naive.

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 25 July 2008 at 10:54pm | IP Logged | 7  

Well, you got me on one point - it's not so direct - it's indirect - so while I'll never apologize to a bigot scum like Savage, I'll appologize to you for getting you so worked up.

But since you asked - here's the deal - I do listen to his show - frequently - and he mimics the style and cadence of Hitler - starts friendly, addresses the audience as "friends", starts to talk about how he and his motherland are put upon and oppressed by [gays, minorities, judges, autistic children etc] then builds to a shrieking screaming crescendo - where he says some of the quotes I'll post - I had to give this intro because if you just read the quotes you could think "well, maybe he was kidding" or "well, that could be out of context" but.,, no, they're usually screamed frantically after a long build-up.

This is from 6/18/2008:

SAVAGE: Now, I want to ask you something. They find two Egyptians with pipe bombs, they get a lawyer, a shyster lawyer, a girl lawyer, who says that they were only fireworks and then she says nobody was actually harmed from the video they made on how to blow people up and kill them. I'm asking you, should they be -- I got to stop right here, because if it was up to me, I would execute them and I'd execute the lawyer. How's that? I'd execute any lawyer who would do this to this country in a time like this -- I'd hang her. I'd hang her. I'd hang her for aiding and abetting terrorism. Don't tell me they're entitled to a rational defense, I'm so sick of this -- I could rip my desk and it's made of iron. I feel like Superman right now, I could take my hands and break my desk, that's how enraged I am today, I'm choked up with anger.

[...]

SAVAGE: Sacramento, Phyllis, you're on the Savage Nation.

CALLER: Hi, hi, Michael. Listen, I guess Mohamed -- Mohamed there and Ahmed wanted to celebrate Fourth of July.

SAVAGE: Yeah, that's why they had a pipe bomb and their lawyer said they were firecrackers. I tell you, I'd hang the lawyer. If I ran this country, I'd hang the lawyer. I would try her for aiding and abetting terrorism -- I'd hang her and I'd hang every lawyer who went down to Guantánamo to defend those murderers. Two hundred rats ran out of New York and Boston to defend these people that would hang them and spit in their face. These guys hate Jews, they would kill Jews and half of the lawyers were Jews. Explain this to me.

CALLER: Michael, you --

SAVAGE: You want to let it all hang out? Why do Jewish liberal lawyers run to Guantánamo to defend Muslims who hate them? Can you explain that to me?

CALLER: No, my father was one of those guys. But I yeah --

SAVAGE: Well, it's the same as the Jewish lawyers and the ACLU who defended the Nazis who wanted to march in Skokie, Illinois. And you ask the Jewish lawyers, "Why would you defend Nazis who want to march in Skokie, Illinois?" And their answer is, "Because I believe in freedom." That's not why they did it, because I learned that one of them, one of the lead attorneys, did it for fame and nothing but fame. He used that as a mockery of the law itself, he made believe that that's what he believed in. He saw it as a good opportunity to get on the world stage and to be recognized. Most of it was done for money, do you understand that, Phyllis?

CALLER: Sure. Yeah, but what I'm calling about is that I want to encourage you, you are my brother in rage. We love you. I want to encourage you to continue, please.

SAVAGE: Yeah, Mohamed was a civil engineering graduate student who came to the University of South Florida -- "Jihad U" -- in January of '07 on a student visa. I guess the homosexual university provost wanted some diversity in the university so they brought them in from around the world. You know how university fellows are, they like diversity in their midst. Megahed is a permanent U.S. resident who lives in Tampa with his family.          ;  

Next up, 10/9/2006:

SAVAGE: The fact of the matter is, in the year 2000, there was an article that I have in my hand -- "U.S. aid helps North Korea build nukes, Congress told." Did you know that the Clinton administration, in the mid-90s, financed two light water nuclear reactors in North Korea? Did you know any of that? That's number one.

Number two: I want to direct you to a traitor. In my opinion, she should be tried for treason, and when she's found guilty, she should be hung. And when she is hung, maybe the other quislings in our government will get the message that we're going to crack down on them, and that our safety and the safety our children mean something to us. The picture I have on michaelsavage.com of Madeleine Albright holding hands with Kim Jong Il the Second [sic] should chill you to your core. I don't know which one is uglier; I don't know which one is more sinister, but this is not a laughing matter.

Madeleine Albright went to North Korea; she legitimized this pot-bellied pig. She is the reason he did this. He outsmarted her. She came back like Chamberlain came back and said, "Chancellor Hitler has told me he simply wants to take a little piece of territory." She is the traitor. "Sandy" Berger is the traitor. And so, don't make any mistakes about it. Now, if you think that Nancy Pale -- Paleolosi's leadership is going to save us from North Korea or China's nukes, you're crazy. You are crazy. I've given her a new name. It's Nancy Paleolosi, because Nancy Paleolosi is living in the Paleolithic.

On April 17, 2006, he calls for:

SAVAGE: There are too many RDDBs [red-diaper doper babies, Savage's term for people supposedly raised by Marxist parents] in high places and in the media and in the courts for us to stand up to this fanatical enemy. And so unless the RDDB is reined in somehow or taken out of power, we're going to die as a nation. I swear to God that's what people are saying to me. And these are intelligent people, wealthy people. They are very depressed by the weakness that America is showing to these psychotics in the Muslim world. They say, "Oh, there's a billion of them." I said, "So, kill 100 million of them, then there'll be 900 million of them." I mean, would you rather die -- would you rather us die than them? I mean, what is it going to take for you people to wake up? Would you rather we disappear or we die? Or would you rather they disappear and they die? Because you're going to have to make that choice sooner rather than later.

So on and such forth.  A quick internet search dug these up.

But really, the guy is always ranting and screaming about this sort of thing.

But here's the clincher - you know it's an act, right?  Back when he was just some North Beach nut writing books about herbal remedies, he used to go nekkid hot tubbing with Alan Ginsburg.  He's putting on an act - my worry is that it's gotten out of control.  I don't think anyone expected people to really go for it - they were supposed to hear it and go "Aw, that's terrible!  What a sad sick little man!"

As of this week, more and more people are doing just that, thanks to his comments on autistic children, but it's kind of disturbing to hear that there are still some people out there who take the nut seriously.

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 25 July 2008 at 10:56pm | IP Logged | 8  

And Jeff is correct.  By the way.  I mean - so far, all we're hearing about is how Obama is bad for the economy (I asked for specifics - was denied) - when, in reality, the blame goes all around.

 

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Greg Reeves
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Posted: 25 July 2008 at 11:28pm | IP Logged | 9  

 Mike wrote:

I just got this pic e-mailed to me:

Holy crap!  That's not 2 miles from my house!  I recognize it because my now wife used to drive past it to get to her parents house, and would use it as a play on words (like, I'm her bud, Greg)!  That's in Mandeville, LA, and any democrat would be disgusted by the mindset here.  I'm surrounded by the most right-wing people you'd ever imagine (including my in-laws).  Wow, that was strange to see; was it sent by another JBFer?

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Daniel Presedo
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Posted: 25 July 2008 at 11:30pm | IP Logged | 10  

Don't apologize, please go on to share your thoughts. I find this extremely enlightening.

>>I do listen to his show - frequently<<
Based on the Hitler swipe and so on, I still do not believe you actually listen to his show.

The autism clip is a good example of the sound byte mentality. Although I did not hear that broadcast I knew what he was illustrating - How is this possible? Because I know the history of thought behind it.

<<This is from 6/18/2008:...<<
Wow, those are some clips you found and I wish I could have an answer for that... and because I had a reasonable education I know that it is HYPERBOLE.

>>A quick internet search dug these up.<<
What no Audio clips? he has the full clip about Autism, if you care to listen, up on his site. But I know you have your mind made up already.

>>But here's the clincher ... Alan Ginsburg...<<
Ok I did not ask you to site where you got the quotes from (I assume media matters) But if you are going to keep handing out these stories you need to back them up.

The ranting and screaming is his "shtick" just like Obama's shtick is change.
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 25 July 2008 at 11:33pm | IP Logged | 11  

ha ha, no - from a friend's father - he and I have a fun e-mail relationship - which reminds me...

I'm about to go out for the night, but I hate to leave on such a note - somehow I let my dark mood kind of foul up this thread.  We went like 150 pages of decent happy debate, and my stupid posts have caused it to devolve into name-calling and rantings.

Bleh.

Look - my deep apologies to Joel and Michael and Daniel - you guys are ok in my book - no hard feelings on my part.  Sorry guys. 

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 25 July 2008 at 11:34pm | IP Logged | 12  

No, you're right, Daniel - every word I said about Savage was a lie.

 

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