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Michael Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 December 2004
Posts: 831
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| Posted: 27 July 2008 at 3:15am | IP Logged | 1
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Josh, I'm aware of the $12 billion a month figure, and simply didn't make the connection with what you were saying. Given the discussion over tax proposals, I actually assumed you were referring to the fact that Senator Obama's tax proposals (both of the candidates proposals are based on 2001-2003 baselines) theoretically lose less tax revenue than McCain's to the tune of approximately $1.5 trillion spread over ten-years...or $150 Billion a year. I wasn't thinking.
Since we're here...
One of the reasons I didn't make that connection is that I accept the CRS and GAO figures for the war, and have discounted the Stiglitz and Bilmes figures as they factor in such things as embassy operations outside of Iraq and theoretical interest on debt (beyond initial expenditure). The truth is we don't know the annual cost of the war when all factors are considered. We do know that the budget approval for direct spending comes to approx. $560 billion, to date. With the passage of the Fiscal Year 2008 Supplemental (including the FY2009 funding bridge request to mid-2009), the total figure rises to $655 billion in war funding for Iraq through July, 2009. Or, $100.7 Billion annually over 6.5 years; resulting in a difference of roughly $280 billion (more than a quarter-of-a-trillion dollars) between actual costs and the higher Stiglitz/Bilmes estimates of two-and-a-half years ago...and, Josh, your own of last night.
Edited by Michael Myers on 27 July 2008 at 3:25am
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 27 July 2008 at 8:12am | IP Logged | 2
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Michael Myers wrote:
Sorry, Al, I must have been mistaken. See, I
thought your point was that everyone else, besides Mike, was responsible
for trying to scapegoat and oversimplify the matter. |
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Yes, then you were mistaken. My use of irony is often too subtle.
My posts have nothing to do with Mike. It seems disingenuous of
you to try to make that connection. If it's an attempt to undermine what
either myself of Mike say in our posts, it's sadly misguided. You can do
better than that. Deal with people who post strictly on the content of
their own posts; it will make your points and rebuttals much more worth
considering.
Edited to remove an unecessary word.
Edited by Al Cook on 27 July 2008 at 8:36am
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Michael Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 December 2004
Posts: 831
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| Posted: 27 July 2008 at 4:32pm | IP Logged | 3
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Smiling. I'll try to keep that in mind, Al.
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 27 July 2008 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | 4
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Cool.
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David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 27 July 2008 at 6:47pm | IP Logged | 5
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Nobody told Bush to lead us into war.
*****
I thought God did? Or Jeebus.
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David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 27 July 2008 at 6:49pm | IP Logged | 6
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Oops. Need a source:
God told him
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18263
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| Posted: 27 July 2008 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | 7
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That said, I for one have serious problems with people who seriously believe that all good things occur because of the acts of one political persuasion and all bad things occur because of the other.
--------------------
Me for two. I wish I could say you (and I) are distancing ourselves from people that don't exist, but they do. I mean, Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter and Michael Moore are that way, but it makes $$ for them. There are ordinary folks who will bend over backward to wage their personal war versus (D) or (R). When we all know everything is the fault of the French.
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Didier Yvon Paul Fayolle
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 January 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 5268
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| Posted: 27 July 2008 at 10:28pm | IP Logged | 8
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Kevin ! I am watching you !
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18263
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| Posted: 28 July 2008 at 7:00am | IP Logged | 9
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I surrender!
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Tom French
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4154
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| Posted: 28 July 2008 at 7:50am | IP Logged | 10
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When we all know everything is the fault of the French.
Not THIS one -- during the war, I had all my students call me "Mr. Freedom!"
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Josh Sherwood
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 May 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 280
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| Posted: 28 July 2008 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 11
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There's big money in portraying yourself as an extremist, even if you're not. Moderate Republicans or Democrats will never get the kind of listening audiences as a Savage, Moore, Bill O, or whomever.
The problem comes from people who actually buy into it. My Dad is an example of that audience. I love the guy to death, but he's convinced that the Democratic Party will spell doom for America. In our last conversation, he told me that the Democrats want to lose the war in Iraq and that McCain will win it if he's elected. He later told me that he thought democracy will never work over there and we're wasting our time. So, I asked him, if you think we can win but you don't think we will ever set up a democracy, then what is your definition of victory? What do we have to do to win in Iraq?
Not surprisingly, he couldn't really answer me.
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Joel Tesch
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 2834
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| Posted: 28 July 2008 at 11:10am | IP Logged | 12
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Did he say "stop sassing me boy!"
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Topic Closed)
