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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 13040
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| Posted: 29 August 2008 at 7:44am | IP Logged | 1
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O'Reilly's main hammer-thrust against Obama is "we still don't know who this guy is."
So -- do we?
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Geoff Gibson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 29 August 2008 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 2
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Now THAT'S a maxi-series! I wonder how many sub-plots there'll be?
My DVR gives me two weeks of advance listings, here they are:
Episode 1: Barack Obama's Muslim and radical upbringing Episode 2: Barack Obama's Radical Friends Episode 3: Barack Obama's Drug Use Episode 4: Barack Obama and Reverand Wright: Best Friends Forever Episode 5: Barack Obama Wants To Destroy Marriage Episode 6: Barack Obama is the Boogyman Episode 7: Barack Obama Doesn't Recycle Epsidoe 8: Barack Obama Doesn't Like Flag Pins Episode 9: Barack Obama Double Dips His Chips Episode 10: Barack Obama is a Democrat
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Scott Richards Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 22 September 2005 Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 29 August 2008 at 7:47am | IP Logged | 3
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I cannot, nor would I, defend what Scott's arguing but I think using Adolf Hitler in almost an analogy tends to be over the top. Even the most hateful racist is a piker compared to that fucker. And despite Scott's non-sensical argument* I don't believe he is in fact a racist.
*Scott where the hell are you going with this argument?
There was no argument. I simple pointed out the fact that a radio show host didn't have to be racist or bigoted to use that term. Then people got their panties in a bunch because they didn't read what I actually said and instead let their emotions go crazy.
You are correct about me not being racist (though I don't think anyone said I was).
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Vinny Valenti Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8411
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| Posted: 29 August 2008 at 7:48am | IP Logged | 4
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I think we need to see the debates before we "know" who Obama is. So far Obama does a very good job with pre-scripted material....let's see how he does when he has to come up with the answers on his own.
Edited by Vinny Valenti on 29 August 2008 at 7:49am
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Al Cook Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 December 2004 Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 29 August 2008 at 7:49am | IP Logged | 5
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...
Edited by Al Cook on 29 August 2008 at 7:50am
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Marc Baptiste Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3633
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| Posted: 29 August 2008 at 7:51am | IP Logged | 6
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Geoff,
Let me say this again, slowly, it was an ANALOGY (and a very sound one), you are not meant to focus on the details, but on the underlying EXAMPLE. Easier to go after my analogy than to really take Scott to task for his comments about racism and bigotry, huh?
Also, again, slowly... I did not accuse Scott of being a Nazi, or even of acting like one. Hitler is the great boogeyman of modern history; Godwin gets way, way too much credit for creating a maxim that simply points out the obvious: when people need an example of great evil... Hitler/Nazi's are very convenient. I could have chosen a thousand others. How does that negate my UNDERLYING analogy, and thus my point? Tell me.
Edited by Marc Baptiste on 29 August 2008 at 7:56am
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Geoff Gibson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 29 August 2008 at 7:51am | IP Logged | 7
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Scott:
By using terms specifically intended to stir fears in others of other races or faiths is an act of racism. One may not be a racist in the sense they think other races are inferior in some way but that act is a racist act because it is seeking to create a negative impression about someone based on their race or national origin.
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Geoff Gibson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5744
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| Posted: 29 August 2008 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 8
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Let me say this again, slowly, it was an ANALOGY (and a very sound one), you are not meant to focus on the details, but on the underlying EXAMPLE. Easier to go after my analogy than to really take Scott to task for his comments about racism and bigotry, huh?
Marc:
Why don't you table the condecension in your post? I didn't direct my post toward you in that way and I would appreciate the same consideration from you. Turning to the merit of your statement I think that your analogy works but asking someone to not focus on the details is insulting. You specifically chose Adolf Hitler because you know what he represents. To ignore that representation is ridiculous. You could not have made an equally effective analogy with some other figure?
As for Scott's statement I did address it.
Edited to add:
In reading your edited comment I wanted to adress (in case it is not clear in my post) the effectiveness of your analogy was never questioned. The person you chose was.
Edited by Geoff Gibson on 29 August 2008 at 8:12am
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Marc Baptiste Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3633
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| Posted: 29 August 2008 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 9
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Geoff,
I am not a very "PC" person. To use a term Scott used earlier, just because people get their "panties in a bunch" when someone uses a Hitler and/or Nazi element in an analogy doesn't mean I will never do so. However, the fact is, I rarely ever do... show me the last time I did, you won't be able to. But you and others didn't judge me on the fact that I rarely, if EVER, have made such an analogy; you just knee-jerked decided it is NEVER okay to do so. I don't agree.
Also, and this isn't directed solely to Geoff... if someone, anyone, makes an analogy using Hitler, Stalin or any of the great "boogeymen" of our time and this part is critical and essential: the analogy IS sound and apt (Geoff says: " the effectiveness of your analogy was never questioned"), BUT you choose to slam the details of the analogy and focus on them and ignore the substance of the example being made, you are guilty as hell what is called the "straw man fallacy", in Logic, where you choose to ignore substance and extract (sometimes even "create") something much easier (and often much flimsier) to attack and focus on that instead. It's a weak, pathetic little thing to do, and I would rather use a sound Hitler analogy, than try to worm my way out of addressing what is really being said in ANY argument/debate/discussion.
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Tom French Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 07 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4154
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| Posted: 29 August 2008 at 8:20am | IP Logged | 10
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Your blinding anger over anyone who doesn't want to vote for Obama is most definitely is in play here.
What? Blind anger? You get upset when someone misinterprets your words, but follow that with a misinterpretation and misrepresentation of your own? You crack me up.
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Scott Richards Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 22 September 2005 Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 29 August 2008 at 8:23am | IP Logged | 11
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What? Blind anger? You get upset when someone misinterprets your words, but follow that with a misinterpretation and misrepresentation of your own?
Okay, Tom. I'll admit that I may have read into your condescending misunderstandings as blinding anger. If that wasn't the reason for them, then I apologize.
At least you finally admit you misinterpreted my words.
Edited by Scott Richards on 29 August 2008 at 8:24am
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Marc Baptiste Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3633
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| Posted: 29 August 2008 at 8:24am | IP Logged | 12
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McCain's VP: CNBC is saying it's going to be Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. A very interesting choice to say the least: a woman; pro-life; and the first Alaska Governor to grant same-sex benefits to state employees.
I don't even know what to make of it yet... except to congratulate McCain on being a clever, clever boy.
Edited by Marc Baptiste on 29 August 2008 at 8:26am
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