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David Ferguson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 March 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 02 September 2008 at 11:40am | IP Logged | 1
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I think the Palin scandal speaks to McCain's judgement. Lets just say we believe that he knew before selecting her as VP (his campaign is hardly likely to say otherwise), what does it say that he picked someone with this (amongst other things) hanging over her. If he didn't know the same issue applies.
I think her daughter is an issue insofar as she markets herself as a family woman and has certain positions on the topic in question. Also she knew this is what would happen if she accepted the nomination.
And to show I'm not being one-sided, Obama can say her family is off-limits knowing full well the media is not going to see it that way.
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Joel Tesch Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 2834
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| Posted: 02 September 2008 at 11:42am | IP Logged | 2
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I don't think McCain, Obama, or Biden want to start bringing all their relatives into the spotlight. That's a lose-lose for everyone.
Especially for Obama!
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/obamas_hillbilly_half_b rother
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Wallace Sellars Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 01 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 17803
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| Posted: 02 September 2008 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 3
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I sometimes believe that McCain (or any of his governmental comrades) could shoot someone in the face for fun, and supporters would go, "Well, it was really okay for him to do that because..."
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Joel Tesch Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 2834
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| Posted: 02 September 2008 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 4
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What makes you say that?
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Al Cook Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 December 2004 Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 02 September 2008 at 11:47am | IP Logged | 5
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Cooter Obama.
I love the Onion.
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Todd Douglas Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 July 2004 Posts: 4101
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| Posted: 02 September 2008 at 11:49am | IP Logged | 6
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QUOTE:
| It would be like if Palin had a family member killed in a car accident while wearing a seatbelt. It doesn't prove that wearing a seatbelt is a bad practice. With that in mind, I don't think it's relevant enough to warrant bringing her daughter into the debate. |
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I've got a bit of disconnect from your analogy, Joel. It rather seems like a family member killed because, not only were they not wearing a seatbelt, but they were even actively taught that wearing a seatbelt wasn't a valid, acceptable option.
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Al Cook Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 December 2004 Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 02 September 2008 at 11:57am | IP Logged | 7
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Yeah, I saw it the same way as you, Todd.
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Todd Douglas Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 July 2004 Posts: 4101
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| Posted: 02 September 2008 at 11:58am | IP Logged | 8
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Allow me to clarify a bit....
The daughter's pregnancy? It happens. The daughter herself...I'd say "off limits." But the pregnancy, in the broader sense, opens the door to the issue of Palin (and McCain's) support of "abstinence only" programs. It opens that door not only for the Obama campaign to discuss the issue in terms of, "We're not talking about just one girl...we're talking about failing to fully educate young men and women throughout the nation." And, it opens that door for the McCain campaign to discuss the issue in terms of, "We're not talking about just one girl...we're talking about children all across the nation dealing with a teen pregnancy that they wouldn't be if they'd just abstain."
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David Ferguson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 March 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 02 September 2008 at 11:59am | IP Logged | 9
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Yeah, Todd's analogy is more on the money.
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Joel Tesch Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 2834
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| Posted: 02 September 2008 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | 10
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It rather seems like a family member killed because, not only were they not wearing a seatbelt, but they were even actively taught that wearing a seatbelt wasn't a valid, acceptable option.
Yeah, but that doesn't work either. Your analogy is she's pregnant bc she was taught that a condom wasn't a valid, acceptable option, right? Well, along with that, she was also taught that having sex as a teenager wasn't a valid, acceptable option either. But she still did it. She obviously makes her own decisions regardless of what she's taught. Plus, who knows they may have used a condom...those things break. They're not 100% effective.
The point is that this is, in effect, anecdotal evidence and it's not useful to use it prove a point...positive or negative. A better way to do that is by using statistical information and trends. That is more meaningful.
Edited by Joel Tesch on 02 September 2008 at 12:04pm
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Joel Tesch Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 2834
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| Posted: 02 September 2008 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | 11
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But the pregnancy, in the broader sense, opens the door to the issue of Palin (and McCain's) support of "abstinence only" programs. It opens that door not only for the Obama campaign to discuss the issue in terms of, "We're not talking about just one girl...we're talking about failing to fully educate young men and women throughout the nation."
Yeah, but that issue is already there. That door is already open. No need to use her daughter as the door opener.
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Todd Douglas Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 July 2004 Posts: 4101
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| Posted: 02 September 2008 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 12
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QUOTE:
| Yeah, but that doesn't work either. Your analogy is she's pregnant bc she was taught that a condom wasn't a valid, acceptable option, right? Well, along with that, she was also taught that having sex as a teenager wasn't a valid, acceptable option either. But she still did it. She obviously makes her own decisions regardless of what she's taught. |
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But that's precisely the point, Joel.
You can tell kids not to "get behind the wheel" all you want. But, there's gonna be the ones who make their own decisions and "go for a joy ride" anyway. Much better to teach them that they shouldn't be "driving" at their young age, but if they insist on doing so anyway, at least wear a "seatbelt," since it dramatically increases your odds of surviving a "crash."
QUOTE:
| Plus, who knows they may have used a condom...those things break. They're not 100% effective. |
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Nor is a seatbelt. But I feel secure that, had they indeed used a condom and it still resulted in a pregnancy, McCain and Palin would be using that as a point in favor of "abstinence only" programs: "See? The only sure way to avoid pregnancy is abstinence." Which, in and of itself, is accurate. But, as you say, there are kids who make their own decisions, regardless of what they're taught. And "abstinence only" programs are putting them "behind the wheel" without telling them about "seatbelts."
{edit: sepllin 'n grammar}
Edited by Todd Douglas on 02 September 2008 at 12:12pm
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