I must say, several people have raised very relevant and interesting points and counterpoints the last few pages. Great discussion. Well done everyone (I'll have to step up my game beyond Onion links and snide remarks. Dammit.)

So do I, Jodi, but the difference is in the passivity, or lack thereof. When one
gets behind the wheel drunk, one is actively endangering the lives of
innocents by becoming a first-hand participant in that endangerment. It is
a first-degree act.

Al I agree with this 100% too. I can't believe I am doing this and Joel correct me if I am way off base, I thought what Joel was trying to say was, one shouldn't get a free pass. But I know what you are saying, I had friends that would smoke pot in their dorm rooms, yes they were breaking the law, but they weren't endangering anyone at that moment doing it. But the guy that drives drunk is.

I enjoyed reading everyones answers to the issues question.  It's really cool to hear what is important to people.

My issues are :

1. End this war, support our troops in Afghanistan and provide better beneifits when they are finished serving. And learn diplomacy is not a bad word.
2. The environment, stop looking at more drilling and develop, solar, wind and biofuels. Let natural gas help us thru until we develop cleaner technologies.
3. Education, education, education (what we spend for one week in Iraq, is more than what we spend on public education in a whole year)
4. Equal rights for all.( let human beings marry human beings)
5. Keep Religion out of government. Keep it in the church where it belongs.

Obama fits most of these, but I have not heard what he has to say about keeping religion out of government.

Edited to add:

I must say, several people have raised very relevant and interesting points and counterpoints the last few pages. Great discussion. Well done everyone (I'll have to step up my game beyond Onion links and snide remarks. Dammit.)

LOL  Joel, don't take all the fun out of this thread. I enjoy some of the snide comments, even when they are sometimes directed at me "Cough, cough, Ron:stupidiest comments I have seen about the election, Cough cough"  But hell I can give as good as I can get.

Regarding Obama's drug use vs drunk driving... I know a lot of guys who would get high and have to get 'more provisions' and more times than not, they would get behind the wheel impared.

Drunk driving or drugged driving, it's all about impairment. I'm not saying with 100% certainty that Obama every drove high, but we don't know that either. It really doesn't matter either way, it was over 20 years ago and it was her husband, wasn't even the VP nominee!

Everyone's acting like Sarah Palin drunkenly crashed her SUV into a bald eagle nest and then, while impaired, shot three homeless guys and gutted them on the spot. Then made breaktast with the Eagle eggs.

Personally, I'm more interested in Obama's ties to Rezko and Ayers than any past drinking/drug use by either side.

Everyone's acting like Sarah Palin drunkenly crashed her SUV into a bald eagle nest and then, while impaired, shot three homeless guys and gutted them on the spot. Then made breaktast with the Eagle eggs.

How do we know that didn't happen. LOL

I thought what Joel was trying to say was, one shouldn't get a free pass. But I know what you are saying, I had friends that would smoke pot in their dorm rooms, yes they were breaking the law, but they weren't endangering anyone at that moment doing it. But the guy that drives drunk is.

Kind of. And I actually don't include the wacky weed in my argument. Though it's illegal, I don't consider that any worse than alcohol. I was referring to hard drugs (ie. coke, which Obama used as a teenager...once I believe he said). Using drugs like that helps support an illegal, but also dangerous underground crime ...one that continuously leads to violence, death and ruined lives. Not to mention the extremely addictive nature of these drugs. Yes, it's much more passive...but eventually it ruins lives as well (and not just the user, but his family and loved ones).

Drunk driving IS a much more "active" crime. But both show a lack of responsibility and poor judgement. THAT said, both examples (Obama's and Palin's husband) are from YEARS ago, and both shouldn't be judged today on bad/stupid/irresponsible decisions they made in the distant past while younger.

What would you consider a Biofuel? Switch grass would be one I would be looking at.

But forget Wind it is not reliable in giving back to the grid especially when it <energy> spikes.

In Indiana we have the nations largest wind energy field and it is helping Indiana meet it's energy needs, there will not be just one magic bullet like oil, it will be a combination.

We already spend a shitload on education but it's wasted,wasted, wasted,

Then what would you consider what we have spend in Iraq?

>>Equal rights for all.<< We have equal rights, trying living in Saudi Arabia.

I agree, there are places that have worse equal rights, but that doesn't mean we can't do better. Give gay people the right to have a marriage, period.

Look at that we agree on a few things, but I still would never vote for Obama/Biden

And that is within your right.

This is why people now think it was a mistake, but they didn't at first

No, the reason people think it's a mistake now, and not at first isn't because it's been mismanaged, but rather because it's becoming more clear every day that we shouldn't have gone in the first place.

Say what you want about Cindy Sheehan, but she brought an important question to the table - "What noble cause did my son die for?"  That was her campaign - after her son died, Bush did the meet and hug and told her "Your son died for a noble cause" and she went home comforted knowing that.

Then things started to come to light.  The Downing Street Memo revealed that Bush intended to go to Iraq no matter what - threat or not.  The Bush Cabinet participated in a sloppy act of treason, outting an undercover CIA spy because her husband wrote an op-ed piece exposing the lies that sent us to war.  Basic logic issues like - why are we still there after that fool on the aircraft carrier said "Mission Accomplished"?  Why don't the Iraqiis want us there?  Why are the average citizens shooting at us, calling us an invading force and trying to get us out?  The fact that the UN Weapon Inspectors, that we threw out, were correct - that there were no weapons of mass distruction, that there was never a gun aimed us, never a threat of a mushroom cloud over Manhattan (and honestly... when has anyone from Iraq attacked us, not including the two times we invaded them?  Answer: Never.  If they had those weapons, they would have used them on Israel, not us.)

Things like that started nagging her, and so she went back to Bush to ask - "Wait - WHAT noble cause did my son die for?" - and he refused to meet with her. 

That was the starting point.  Many Americans started to shake off the sleepy feeling and realize they had been sold a pig in a poke and that our boys were dying for WHAT?  For WHAT??  To protect Americans?  From what?  Iraq was never a threat to us.  Because of 9/11?  Why not attack New Zealand?  They had as much to do with it as Iraq. To depose a tyrant?  Well - first - if the people of Iraq wanted that guy deposed, they would have deposed him, but moral qualms about invading soverign nations aside, we removed him years ago. To keep peace in the middle east?  That'll happen.

Here's a key point - do you know why OBL organized and attacked the west?  Was it because he hated our freedom?  No.  It's not because he hated our freedom.  This isn't a small child's comic book.  He has clearly stated why he attacked - because of our support of Israel, because we built military bases on islamic holy ground, because of our ties to the royal Saudi family.  Hating freedom, trying to find his gypsy mother in hell, avenging the scar on his face because he didn't listen to damn-ed Richard?  Not reasons.

I'll have to step up my game beyond Onion links and snide remarks

Don't leave out condesending remarks and the posting personification of Fox News - Screaming about Truth when any subtle slight is mentioned of McCain, but turning away and whistling when Obama is smeared.  You step that game up, Joel.

And, yes, Dave, that was a personal attack.  Cry to the mods and have me banned.