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Joel Tesch
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 2834
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| Posted: 03 September 2008 at 5:21pm | IP Logged | 1
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Reading this back and forth between the Michaels on economics...I just feel stupider and stupider.
Don't swing at the easy ones.
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Michael Retour
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 932
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| Posted: 03 September 2008 at 5:42pm | IP Logged | 2
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Joel lol, we don't really have a back and forth. I don't even know Michael nor does he know me. I have a bit of training in economics and I assume he does as well. I know enough to make a mess of things let's say.
Anyone can look up Pinochet and the Chicago School and if you're going for a PHD in Economics (capital E) at a university in the States I really doubt they are going to bring up something as embarrassing as Pinochet and his relationship to what passes for economics in the US today. You know?
I had a special course, heh.
No supporter of the Austrian School or the Chicago School is going to bring these matters up, or if they do, they will whitewash them -- as has been done here.
The Clinton years were not years of economic growth to me but years of decay. I speak of economics in terms of physical output, not games people play on street corners guessing where the card is.
The banks, what's left of them, are mainly insolvent. They have what are called off balance sheet liabilities and you won't hear talk of that and "Bubbles" Greenspan also argued to keep these liabilities off the balance sheets of the banks (or they would all be officially bankrupt).
Did you know people actually bet on the weather? There is a a derivative called a weather derivative which the state of X bets the state of B that it will be warm summer. I kid you not. These monetarists are really zonkers. This is legal too.
Clinton, according to Reich and others, was terrified of Greeenspan for some reason. For me, Greenspan was just an Ayn Rand acolyte who didn't draw Spider-Man so I didn't care much for Alan's speculative bubbles. He wrecked a great deal of what was left of our economy.
There is ample history on speculative bubbles out in the public domain, primary source stuff. No one has to believe a word I say.
Simply put, Pinochet was a fascist installed by the Chicago Boys and the help of the CIA. His monetarist policies worked best under fascism. Friedman even said so. This isn't a matter of debate. It is historical fact.
So-called "free markets" aren't so free after all.
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Scott Richards
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2005
Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 03 September 2008 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | 3
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Except for the nutjobs, nobody thinks the democrats are communists or the republicans are nazis. Just that the dems are closer to socialism and the republicans are closer to fascism.
Very good way of putting it. Who some one supports depends on which direction they want the government to lean Personally I like a nice comfotable middle ground where neither side has all the power.
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Michael Retour
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 932
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| Posted: 03 September 2008 at 6:00pm | IP Logged | 4
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Scott,
Then there are quite an awful lot of nut jobs in the USA because once you start peeling the onion people label their beliefs you find things underneath and many actually believe the above even though they could not even define the terms.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 03 September 2008 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | 5
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Awkwardly points out to Scott that he is, by Keith's definition, a "nutjob", due to his irrational assumption that President Obama will somehow bring about "Socialism". That he will somehow, in matters of finance, not do what every other American President has done: ie - sup at the teat of big business.
Hell, I couldn't be a more staunch supporter of Obama, but even I admit that things aren't going to change significantly, financially, under his Presidency.
I'll just get a bigger tax break under him than I would under McCain.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12843
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| Posted: 03 September 2008 at 6:10pm | IP Logged | 6
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“She asked the
library how she could go about banning books,”
Ah, yup. If she had only been born across the border in Russia, she would have made a great Communist.
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 03 September 2008 at 6:31pm | IP Logged | 7
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I was trying to find a way to put that myself that wouldn't cause Scott to put
me back on ignore again, Mike.
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Joel Tesch
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006
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| Posted: 03 September 2008 at 6:37pm | IP Logged | 8
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I'll just get a bigger tax break under him than I would under McCain.'
I KNEW you were a closet Republican!
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Joel Tesch
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006
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| Posted: 03 September 2008 at 6:38pm | IP Logged | 9
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Did you know people actually bet on the weather? There is a a derivative called a weather derivative which the state of X bets the state of B that it will be warm summer. I kid you not. These monetarists are really zonkers. This is legal too.
Amazing.
For me, Greenspan was just an Ayn Rand acolyte who didn't draw Spider-Man so I didn't care much for Alan's speculative bubbles.
That made me chuckle. Good line.
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6808
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| Posted: 03 September 2008 at 6:40pm | IP Logged | 10
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I KNEW you were a closet Republican
Joel stop insulting Mike. LOL
Edited by Jodi Moisan on 03 September 2008 at 6:40pm
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12735
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| Posted: 03 September 2008 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | 11
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They've got to either draw Spider-Man or play drums.
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Scott Richards
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2005
Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 03 September 2008 at 6:56pm | IP Logged | 12
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Awkwardly points out to Scott that he is, by Keith's definition, a "nutjob", due to his irrational assumption that President Obama will somehow bring about "Socialism".
Awdwardly points out to Mike that maybe he is a nutjob for suggesting that since based on what Keith said, it would be more socialist with a Democratic Congress and Democratic Presidency. I simply pointed out fact and then Mike editorialed the word "irrational" where it didn't belong perhaps making him irrational?
:)
Edited by Scott Richards on 03 September 2008 at 7:00pm
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