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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 04 September 2008 at 10:20pm | IP Logged | 1  

 Joe Zhang wrote:
on the other hand there are a lot of people who are going to vote for Obama just because he's Black, which of course is foolish. So it balances out. 


It doesn't really balance out, because most of the "vote for Obama because he's black" people probably would have voted Democratic anyway, whereas that is not the case with Palin.  The shitheads who vote for Palin soley because of her vagina are likely to have more of an effect on the election than the shitheads who vote for Obama solely because of his epidermis.  I hope there's not too many of those people.  Check out hillaryis44.com for a particularly scary example.  The creator of that site intends to vote McCain/Palin even though she fully admits she disagrees with most all of their policy positions.  Although I guess in that case it's more about hating Obama for what he did to Hillary than it is about voting for Palin because she's a woman.

Bumper sticker of the day:  Jesus was a community organizer, Pontius Pilate was a governor.


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Jeff Gillmer
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Posted: 04 September 2008 at 10:41pm | IP Logged | 2  

I think that more people are going to vote for Obama because of his pigmentation than will vote for Palin.  A lot of the black community don't vote, and having a black on the ticket will get them to the polls.  The Hillary voters may say they are going to vote for McCain-Palin, but I doubt most will be able to pull that lever in the voting booth.

"Bumper sticker of the day:  Jesus was a community organizer, Pontius Pilate was a governor."
Oh yeah, PLEASE put that on your cars!  Nothing will inflame the religious right more than having the democrat nominee compared with Jesus more than he already is.

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Rich Rice
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Posted: 04 September 2008 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | 3  

Well Joe, I'm going to assume you are young and there's a lot of youthful inexperience in your words. Given the history of Blacks in America there is reason and cause that informs the response of African Americans that is far, far removed from knee-jerk.

America has come a long way, but in truth the advances to this day are at best a third of the way along the road and quite recent. My mother's mother was the daughter of a slave. And she lived in turn of the century,rural Mississippi to a life you couldn't begin to imagine. My mother picked cotton as a young girl and grew up in the Jim Crow south. She moved north and made a life for herself in Chicago, a city perhaps justly referred to as the 'most segregated city in the north.' -For all the Right Wing complaints about racial quotas taking a class room seat from a more qualified white student, I wonder if any of those same people ever visited the home of friend who's parents happened to be a retired firefighter or cop and wondered, "Gee? Did your dad get all these things by being picked over a more qualified black man?"

My elders grew up knowing where they could eat and where they couldn't. They did not have the luxury of the illusion that they could get a job as a policeman or fireman. As a boy growing up, I lived in a neighborhood that was all black. Just 2 blocks away the men who lived and worked in our fire station were all white. As a boy I assumed -correctly, at least for the times- that these two things were indelible.  I can still recall the day I first ran into a black police officer. I let out an involuntary, audible 'gasp.'

In a world of Tiger Woods and Michael Jordans, it may be difficult for many a young person of any color to grasp exactly the magnitude of Obama's nomination.
Or a person who's personal circumstances of equity and comfort allow them to believe that there is "equality in America already."

Besides, the overwhelming leaning of Blacks to the Democratic side is scarcely an accident. As with all people, you go with those who serve your interests. Democrats, maybe not always well, but certainly leagues and light years beyond what the Republican Party has offered. Tie history and service together and you have the cause. Hardly a knee-jerk reaction to seeing someone of their own skin color.

I was a Hillary supporter.




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Rich Rice
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Posted: 04 September 2008 at 10:56pm | IP Logged | 4  

Sub inextricably linked for indelible.

I have struggled to overcome a childhood of being taught through the Chicago Public School System circa the 1960's. Some foundations are a tough nut to crack.
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 04 September 2008 at 11:04pm | IP Logged | 5  

" Well Joe, I'm going to assume you are young and there's a lot of youthful inexperience in your words."


That's true. But I imagine if Condi Rice was McCain's VP pick instead.
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Daniel Presedo
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Posted: 04 September 2008 at 11:08pm | IP Logged | 6  

>>overwhelming leaning of Blacks to the Democratic side is scarcely an accident.<<

Some history...(Thanks to Mr. Rice)
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a Republican. In that era, almost all black Americans were Republicans. Why? From its founding in 1854 as the anti-slavery party until today, the Republican Party has championed freedom and civil rights for blacks. And as one pundit so succinctly stated, the Democrat Party is as it always has been, the party of the four S's: Slavery, Secession, Segregation and now Socialism.

It was the Democrats who fought to keep blacks in slavery and passed the discriminatory Black Codes and Jim Crow laws. The Democrats started the Ku Klux Klan to lynch and terrorize blacks. The Democrats fought to prevent the passage of every civil rights law beginning with the civil rights laws of the 1860's, and continuing with the civil rights laws of the 1950's and 1960's.

During the civil rights era of the 1960's, Dr. King was fighting the Democrats who stood in the school house doors, turned skin-burning fire hoses on blacks and let loose vicious dogs. It was Republican President Dwight Eisenhower who pushed to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1957 and sent troops to Arkansas to desegregate schools. President Eisenhower also appointed Chief Justice Earl Warren to the U.S. Supreme Court which resulted in the 1954 Brown vs. Board of Education decision ending school segregation. Much is made of Democrat President Harry Truman's issuing an Executive Order in 1948 to desegregate the military. Not mentioned is the fact that it was President Eisenhower who actually took action to effectively end segregation in the military.

Democrat President John F. Kennedy is lauded as a proponent of civil rights. However, Kennedy voted against the 1957 Civil rights Act while he was a senator, as did Democrat Senator Al Gore, Sr. And after he became president, John F. Kennedy was opposed to the 1963 March on Washington by Dr. King that was organized by A. Phillip Randolph who was a black Republican. President Kennedy, through his brother Attorney General Robert Kennedy, had Dr. King wiretapped and investigated by the FBI on suspicion of being a Communist in order to undermine Dr. King.

Times change, it's about time for someone like Obama to succeed and part of me wishes that he wins in 2008.

Edited by Daniel Presedo on 04 September 2008 at 11:09pm
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Keith Elder
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Posted: 04 September 2008 at 11:22pm | IP Logged | 7  

It's always puzzled me that blacks seem to vote in such a monolithic block... something like 90% democrat?  How often in political terms do you see 90% support for anything?  Even the most lopsided races rarely end up at more than 60% or so.  Women didn't commit in any such massive numbers to Hillary's campaign.

Especially when, as Daniel mentions, Democratic and Republican support for civil rights have flipped at times in the past, and today both parties are absolutely against racial prejudice, with the only real difference between them being how best to achieve that goal.

It just seems to speak to people identifying too strongly with a particular political party, and the older I get the more harm I see both major parties inflicting on the political system.

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 04 September 2008 at 11:25pm | IP Logged | 8  

Rich - Joe is young, but he's a good cat - he's one of us.
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Jim Lynch
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Posted: 04 September 2008 at 11:38pm | IP Logged | 9  

sorry to come in late.

In response to Sarah Palin's speech - how sad is it that the Republicnas have to summon the shade of Harry Truman in their convention??

And somewhere upthread someone mentioned Limbaugh masturbating - I'm certain that's what he was doing friday when she announced her candidacy.

Oh and look, as I type Republican shill Mike Huckabee is on Tavis Smiley and again mentions Harry Truman!

And how can the Repubs blame the media for the Bristol incident when the Palins themselves brought that out? 

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 04 September 2008 at 11:50pm | IP Logged | 10  

Robin - my gut feeling is that while there are some women like that - it's not even a blip on the radar - though it seems, over the last week, everyone has a story about one... though I suspect that's like how everyone has a story about, I don't know, seeing George Michael at a rest stop/cruising spot or something.  It's something that could happen, and many people are making it up and getting a lot of milage out of it.

Now, here's the thing - sure there are a lot of ignorant voters out there - you may not be aware of this up north, but we've let our educational standards slip over the last 40 years or so.  But with Lord Savior Barry Obama as my witness, I will do what I can to make sure that all those idiot voters are personally escorted to the polls on Wednesday November 5th to vote.

Ok, ok, I stole that from the Onion.

But here's my point - there are a lot of foolish voters, but also - you know, there are a some female voters that identify with that sort of female viewpoint.   I think it's a terrible and backward way of thinking, but then again, I'm a big city eliteist, so... you know, all my ideas of freedom and equality and power for women are just the devil talking from my smart mouth.  You know...

But power to them.  If there are some women who are happy to, you know, be sheltered housewives, and not be exposed to art and culture, that's their right - and oddly, the freedom to live however you like, even if it seems strange and outlandish to your fellow citizen, well, and I'm not being funny here - that's one of the things that makes America a great place.

Now, here's the thing - along with that sort of lifestyle often comes judgement.  Like, I mean... I agree with Obama that family should be off-limits, but... you know, the reason the media and some bloggers jumped all over the 17 year old daughter baby thing?  (other than the obvious - can't controll her own daughter - sure can't controll the nation)  Because vocal representatives of her party and belief system have been so vocally opposed to it.  Like, take this guy:

On the pinhead front, 16-year-old Jamie Lynn Spears is pregnant....Now most teens are pinheads in some ways. But here the blame falls primarily on the parents of the girl, who obviously have little control over her...

Yeah, that's Bill O'Reilly, who was AGHAST that anyone would dare have anything to say about Failin and her family drama.  I mean... you know... what do you say to that?  You know - that's why it was such an excited bloodletting - because those sort kind of bring it on themselves.  The shame of it is that the misplaced anger at O'Reilly is aimed at that poor dumb weiner mitten.  Hell, she don't know!  She's just, you know, screwing some moron in the woods.  She had no idea she'd be thrust in the national spotlight.  I feel for the kid.  Not for O'Reilly, though.  He's a dick.

In other news - for you science fans out there - dig Obama's replies to scientist's questions: http://www.sciencedebate2008.com/www/index.php?id=40

Refreshing!  After 8 years of some sick screw who thinks the world is 6,000 years old, and the 8 years before that, where the guy's science knowledge revolved around pennicilin shots... it's refreshing to see an intellegent candidate!

Huzzah!

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Keith Elder
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Posted: 04 September 2008 at 11:51pm | IP Logged | 11  

Hm.  Why is it sad?  Is it sad whenever Kennedy is mentioned?

(Edit to mention I was responding to Jim.)


Edited by Keith Elder on 04 September 2008 at 11:53pm
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 04 September 2008 at 11:53pm | IP Logged | 12  

" Rich - Joe is young, but he's a good cat - he's one of us."

Meow !
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