Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 1093 Next >>
Topic: US Presidential Election (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Corey Johnson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2020
Posted: 10 October 2008 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | 1  

I think most people understand that a depression of this magnitude isn't going to change overnight and the behavior of our economy does not solely hinge on Obama's actions.

However, that won't stop Republicans from trying to pre-emptively blame Obama for this latest downturn (just more of the Bush Doctrine, I suppose).

At some point, you've got nowhere to go but up--and if that happens within Obama's term, he may be looked upon as one of the greatest presidents ever.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2514
Posted: 10 October 2008 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | 2  

Whose fault this is:

- US debt was US$ 2 tri, now is US$ 10 tri.
- US had surplus during Clinton, now has huge deficit
- Unregulated Derivative market blew the worst financial crisis since 1929,
- CDS - Credit Default Swap correspond to nearly US$ 45 tri simply because the regulatory environment was reckless (not to say irresponsible and criminal)

Maybe someone can compare this figures and tell me what can be worse than that
Back to Top profile | search
 
Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar
Official JB Historian

Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
Posted: 10 October 2008 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | 3  

Poll Date Sample Obama (D) McCain (R) Spread
RCP Average 10/01 - 10/09 -- 49.2 42.9 Obama +6.3
FOX News 10/08 - 10/09 900 RV 46 39 Obama +7
Gallup Tracking 10/07 - 10/09 2784 RV 51 41 Obama +10
Rasmussen Tracking 10/07 - 10/09 3000 LV 50 45 Obama +5
Hotline/FD Tracking 10/07 - 10/09 838 LV 48 41 Obama +7
Reuters/CSpan/Zogby Tracking 10/07 - 10/09 1203 LV 48 43 Obama +5
GW/Battleground Tracking 10/06 - 10/09 800 LV 51 43 Obama +8
Time 10/03 - 10/06 1053 LV 50 44 Obama +6
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 10/04 - 10/05 658 RV 49 43 Obama +6
CBS News 10/03 - 10/05 616 LV 48 45 Obama +3
CNN 10/03 - 10/05 694 LV 53 45 Obama +8
Ipsos/McClatchy 10/02 - 10/06 858 RV 47 40 Obama +7
Democracy Corps (D) 10/01 - 10/05 1000 LV 49 46 Obama +3

 

Oh, SNAP.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Scott Richards
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 September 2005
Posts: 1258
Posted: 10 October 2008 at 2:28pm | IP Logged | 4  

So why didn't the markets crash every other time a Dem took office?

Things have never been this fragile before.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2514
Posted: 10 October 2008 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 5  

Back to Top profile | search
 
Horace Austin
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 November 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 634
Posted: 10 October 2008 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 6  

Scott Richards wrote:

Big business most definitely doesn't want him in office because their costs will rise and profits will drop significantly.  It's naive to think the market wouldn't react accordingly.

***

I don't buy it.

We're heading into a new regulatory era regardless of who gets elected President.

Actually, we're already there.  President's Bush's $700 billion bailout plan ushered us in.



Edited by Horace Austin on 10 October 2008 at 3:10pm
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4639
Posted: 10 October 2008 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 7  

Assuming there is some truth to Scott's thesis that the markets are dropping due to fear of an Obama victory... the irony is that the further the markets drop, the more likely his victory becomes.  If big business really wants him to lose, they should be out there investing and buying and doing whatever they can to shore up the market.  A sudden resurgence in the market over the next month is McCain's best shot at victory.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar
Official JB Historian

Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
Posted: 10 October 2008 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | 8  

I think there's a perception problem with R vs D on economy.

If we live in a perfect Republican unregulated laizez-faire free market economy, things would be like this all the time, but... so what?  That's the way of the market.  Easy come, easy go.  You lost some money?  Too bad, tough it out and earn it again. 

The problem comes when that ideology hits the reality of the average American - who, in theory, likes the idea of free market, but isn't so interested in going broke to make a point.

Which is why a balance is a great thing.  I know FDR is tutted by some here - but I love how he mixed the two - have a mostly free market where you are free to make a buck (or a million) but still have safety nets.

Nothing wrong with that.  Obama doesn't want to end the free market - no Democrat does.  He's not pushing for Socialism, he's pushing for the safety net that we should have.  The one that's been chipped away by ideology ever since FDR set it up.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Knut Robert Knutsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 September 2006
Posts: 7369
Posted: 10 October 2008 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 9  

"Big business most definitely doesn't want him in office because their costs will rise and profits will drop significantly.  It's naive to think the market wouldn't react accordingly."

We get this, too,  during every election cycle. If the "left" wins, it is foretold that businesses will go bankrupt, jobs will be lost, interest rates will go up etc. All according to "economic experts" who are firmly ensconced in the "right".  They treat it as if there's a natural law that when the political left gets into office, they'll tax businesses and individuals to the point of starvation. All evidence to the contrary.

What they really mean is: "if taxation or regulations mean our profit margins go from 'great' to merely 'ok' we'll lay people off and move businesses overseas to squeeze every drop of profit out of this project."  Businesses aren't being closed down only if they're not profitable enough to be sustained, but when people want more than enough.

To some small businesses added taxes have a huge effect. Which means that there's an argument to be made for differentiating tax increases so that smaller businesses aren't as affected. 

But if you make a tax to cover only Wal-Mart size companies, they'll push those same "Mom and Pop" corner stores that Wal-mart puts out of business by the hundreds in front of them, saying basically that if you tax Wal-Mart any more, you're to blame for those small business owners going out of business.

The truth is, the reason most small businesses go under is not because they're too heavily taxed, but because they're being low-balled by big business. And giving small businesses tax breaks isn't going to help if big business gets the same tax breaks, only bigger.

Big business isn't going to like the "left", because the left are going to make them pay more taxes and make their lives more difficult. But the fact that say, Democratic policies are bad for the profit margins of big business is not the same as it being bad for the country or bad for smaller businesses or consumers.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Rich Rice
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 April 2008
Posts: 195
Posted: 10 October 2008 at 3:55pm | IP Logged | 10  

Scott, I encourage you to say all you desire in support of McCain. But must you say retarded things just to have something to say? Really, can you possibly imagine these vipers endangering a dollar in their pockets to spite a Democratic candidate? Really? They would chew up and spit out their own grandmothers if it meant profit. -Two trillion dollars in wealth lost in the last 2 weeks alone. These money grubbers would steal a nickel from a child dying of cancer.

Secondly, The Dow is off 39% in the last year. -Did this self destructing cabal have the powers to read into the future? This slide has been building steam, for years. Even the guys at Lehman Bros., et al, knew what was coming. That's why they were busy lining their pockets like madmen towards the end.

Thirdly, and perhaps the most obvious observation as to why what you're saying is childishly stoopid... In the days before the crash, McCain had the wind at his back. He had chosen Sarah Palin. The media was calling it a stroke of genius. He was UP in the polls and presumably on his way to victory. -There would be no need to 'spite' Obama at that point.

Please, this line of thought is a waste of your precious time on earth...
Use that gift wisely.

That said, I praise god almighty for delivering this great economic catastrophe. I couldn't bear to live with another year of Republican rule. Praise the Lord. Praise God. Thank you, Jesus.




Edited by Rich Rice on 10 October 2008 at 4:02pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Rich Rice
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 April 2008
Posts: 195
Posted: 10 October 2008 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | 11  

Btw, isn't it fascinating how ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! those Republican rallies have become?

Who put the bug up their britches?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Corey Johnson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2020
Posted: 10 October 2008 at 4:10pm | IP Logged | 12  

I beg to differ with Scott's theory. Historically, Democratic presidents are better for the economy than Republican ones:

http://www.slate.com/id/2199810/

Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 1093 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login