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Mark Waldman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1266
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| Posted: 11 October 2008 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | 1
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And I hope Palin makes another run - if so, it ensures the Republicans will lose again.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12842
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| Posted: 12 October 2008 at 12:03am | IP Logged | 2
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" mostly because those folks want to sleep with her"
As they say, "I wouldn't kick her out of bed". But I still wouldn't vote for her.
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6808
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| Posted: 12 October 2008 at 12:13am | IP Logged | 3
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/opinion/12rich.html?ex=138 1464000&en=fde9fb7553a7403e&ei=5124&partner=digg &exprod=digg
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 12 October 2008 at 12:45am | IP Logged | 4
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I'm leaning towards Moore/Alexander. I kind of like the thought of being able to say, "I voted Socialist."
Woah! That's not on my ballot here in California!
I love to vote in person - means a lot to me - I'm a Freemason - we like ceremony - but I'll be traveling for work on election day this year, so I had to get an absentee ballot and it came in the mail today, and the only choices for President here in California are:
- Obama/Biden - Democrat
- Barr/Root - Libertarian
- McCain/Palin - Republican
- McKinney/Clemente - Green
- Keyes/Drake - American Independant
- Nader/Gonzalez - Peace and Freedom
I've been wanting to vote for Obama since 2004, so it's a no brainer for me, but if Hillary were the top pick, it would be a hard choice. I might come around and support her, since realistically, she would still support the values I support as a democrat, but I don't like her, I don't like the way the Clinton's govern (too right-leaning - too conservative - may as well call themselves Republicans), and I don't like the inevitability of her campaign - Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton - it was too... cute. So, were it to have happened, and I couldn't vote for her (like you, Thom, I'm in a state where I can throw my vote away if needed, though I still disagree with that practice) - who to vote for??
Nader has done a lot for mankind over the years. Having said that, his campaign in 2000 erased all his goodwill, and made him the man most in need of a full knee-capping. Like his VP pick - a former SF Supervisor, but still... can never forgive nor forget his betrayal of America in 2000.
Like McKinney - she's a good egg. Plus? Her veep, Clemente? I hate to be a pig, but she's beautiful. I don't get this fawning over Palin - she's gross - though that may be her personality and beliefs I'm seeing, but I'm not going to lie to you, I would love to escort Rosa Clemente to a dance. But having said that - being hot for a Veep candidate is the stupidist reason to support a ticket and they're running on the Green ticket, which is the only ticket that scares me worse than the Republican ticket. So they're out.
I'd never vote for Keyes or Barr, so... you know, I'd write someone in.
But! I don't have to - My pick - my pick ever since 2004 - is running. I'm excited and proud to support Barry Obama for President.
Huzzah!
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Scott Richards
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2005
Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 12 October 2008 at 7:17am | IP Logged | 5
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Scott - how about this? Let's say Obama wins. And let's say, you
know, things don't go to hell. The economy doesn't get worse, and
things stablize and heck, some things turn out ok. Let's say all this
happens, and Obama even turns out to be a decent leader.
What say I take you to lunch if that happens, huh? I don't know
where you live, but I'm guessing it's not in my neck of the woods, so
this deal would be, you know, I'd send you a gift card to a restaurant
or something, but... come on. You have said over and over that you
seem sure that Obama is not the leader we need - I'm willing to buy you
a soup and sandwhich to show how dedicated I am to the idea that he is
exactly what we need. (to say nothing of the larger bet I have going
with a fellow board member!)
What do you say? Would you accept that? If things turn out ok in a year or two?
Nah, Mike, I'd wouldn't want you to spend your money over a political disagreement on a message board. The country turning out better would be reward enough. All I want is a strong, healthy America where we can enjoy our freedoms. I truly hope that we get that. It's not about winning. It's about the country. If that happened under Obama, I'd be happy and would gladly admit I was wrong. In the mean time, I have to go with the choice that I think would most likely lead to a strong America and then if McCain wins, hope that I was right and if Obama wins, hope that I was wrong.
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Scott Richards
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2005
Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 12 October 2008 at 7:20am | IP Logged | 6
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I fully expect Palin to be groomed for 2012
I have to agree. I wouldn't vote for her, but I'm guessing Republicans will be of the mind set that going with a moderate candidate didn't work so they'll go back to ultra-conservative.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 13153
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| Posted: 12 October 2008 at 7:22am | IP Logged | 7
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The GOP needs to nominate somebody brilliant, that is to say, elite.
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Scott Richards
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2005
Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 12 October 2008 at 7:27am | IP Logged | 8
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I've been wanting to vote for Obama since 2004, so it's a no brainer
for me, but if Hillary were the top pick, it would be a hard choice. I
might come around and support her, since realistically, she would still
support the values I support as a democrat, but I don't like her, I
don't like the way the Clinton's govern (too right-leaning - too
conservative - may as well call themselves Republicans)
Thanks, Mike, that shows me that someone else sees the difference between Clinton and Obama and why they aren't interchangeable when it comes to voting. She is too right-leaning and conservative for you and you don't like her. Obama is too left-leaning and liberal for me and I don't like him. While they are both Democrats and both agree on some things, each would be a very different President.
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6808
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| Posted: 12 October 2008 at 7:30am | IP Logged | 9
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/10/opinion/l10ayers.html?_r=2 &ref=opinion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
http://www.newsweek.com/id/163396
boy I am sad guys like this isn't on our side, so generous to that little kid. LOL
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4515218n&tag=cent erColumn;centerColumnContent
Edited by Jodi Moisan on 12 October 2008 at 7:37am
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Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2514
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| Posted: 12 October 2008 at 7:51am | IP Logged | 10
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Good one Jodi!
But, I have a proposal.
Let's agree on something, right now, the most urgent problem in US is the economy. Bush is having meetings with G-7 and G20 not about homeland security, or any other issue, but about ECONOMY.
Now, let's take a look at some facts:
What is the DEMON that is causing this mess? The name is DERIVATIVES, those financial intruments that can be very simply described as a BET. Since beting is something that it can turn out to be very, very DANGEROUS, some countries restrict the amount of money that a company (mainly banks) can have EXPOSED in those transactions. Many corporations having problems had a HUGE exposure on CDS - Credit Default Swaps, "insurance like" Derivatives in which the Bank is "betting" that other part will honor their debts (even though they have no control, administrative influence or anything similar on those corporations with Debt) since the default of the invesment securities backed with subprime mortgages, the corporations (like Lehman Brothers and AIG), who have sold those derivatives, were called to PAY for the default (even though they had no asset to cover for that debt) result, they end up with no money and no receivable, their Owners Equity turned around and they didn't had enough assets to cover their liabilities, result bankropcy.
Now, WHICH PARTY (Republicans or Democrats) can provide the president the solution for this mess?
a) Republicans who believe that the "market" is better off unregulated and things will find their way, meanwhile we use taxpayers money to solve the liquidity crisis.
b) Democrats who believe that the " market" needs more regulation regarding the level of exposure a Bank or an Insurance company can have contracted under severe punishments to executives that do not follow the rule?
Let's agree on something else, both OBAMA and MCCAIN are not experts on Economy issues like this one, that requires ECONOMIC ADVISORS.
So, If you vote for McCain ("the good'old McCain will be back) or Obama (unexperienced Lawyer and comunity worker, blablablab) the TRUTH IS, none knows how to FIX the problem. So, if you believe that ECONOMY is the REAL issue to be solved (all others will not hurt that much for 4 years) then COMPARE the ECONOMIC teams and evaluate their proposals.
Discussions about Ayers, Pit-Bulls, Crazy Bitches or associated subjects, are just a waste of time.
Updated for spelling.
Edited by Marcio Ferreira on 12 October 2008 at 7:53am
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Wayde Murray
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 October 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 3115
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| Posted: 12 October 2008 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 11
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Scott wrote:
I'm guessing Republicans will be of the mind set that going with a moderate candidate didn't work so they'll go back to ultra-conservative.
That's part of my thinking. I'm also looking at media reports that say some people are literally leaving the room once John McCain gets up to address them. Some people are attending just to see and hear Sarah Palin.
I don't agree that the Republican Party is going to go away following the Bush presidency. The party survived Nixon and Watergate, it will survivie Bush. A weak or indecisive Democratic president would put the Republicans back in power in short order, as it did following Carter's single term.
I also don't agree that Palin is stupid. I think she's smarter than George W. Bush, and I think she's certainly smart enough to dance with the ones that brought her. A few months ago she was, quite frankly, a political nobody, now she's been told by foreign leaders that they'd "like to give her a hug". Talk of McCain;s age would serve to remind her every day that she's going to be THAT CLOSE to the Oval Office. That's quite a climb, and the air gets pretty thin up there.
Does anyone honestly think that (a) the Party will turn away from an enormously popular candidate that they can remake in whatever image they prefer or require, or that (b) this specific candidate would resist the remake for a shot at the top of the ticket? She may have "joked" that she didn't know exactly what the duties of the Vice President are, but I'm betting she knows what the President does.
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Scott Richards
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2005
Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 12 October 2008 at 8:12am | IP Logged | 12
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Since we don't know who the economic advisors would be or what proposals they would come up with, it's a guessing game.
Your definitions of Republican and Democrat are way too simplistic. You painted it as black and white when in the reality of things it's not that clear cut.
Republicans are not for complete deregulation. Democrats are not for full regulation. What we need is smart regulation. The regulation should be in place to prevent the worst of the worst from happening without getting in the way at other times. They shouldn't be narrow corridors that block all but the sunniest of sunny day scenarios.
As far as the candidates, I'd trust McCain to be more bipartisan when it came to getting economic advice than I would Obama, and that's what I think it will take to solve this crisis. If anyone thinks that one party is going to solve this problem by doing things their way without the other party, then they are being naive at best.
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Topic Closed)
