Okay Jodi, I guess there is no point in discussing this topic further.  It is abundantly obvious that you are going to keep going off on tangents and making excuses rather than admit you were incorrect.  I honestly believe you know you were incorrect but you just can't seem to bring yourself to verbalize anything if it doesn't help Obama in some way.

Palin never said she believed people could pray away the gay.  Period.

You were wrong.  You dancing around the issue doesn't make you any less wrong but it does make you look like a kool-aid drinker rather than someone who knows what's real and what isn't.

Does the actions of an associate color what a candidate is all about, even if it happened briefly a long time ago? Well Scott, that's certainly what Palin and a few dozen attack ads seem to viciously allude to.

Monte, I don't see your point here.  Questioning someone's judgment over their association with someone is a completely different animal than lying about what they said.  It's perfectly acceptable to quesiton judgment.  It's not perfectly acceptable to lie.

Mike you would vote McCain /Palin if hillary was the dems choice?

No, God no.  I would never ever, under any circumstance, cast a vote for a Fundementalist for public office.  Even if I had cancer and they had the cure.  There's no way.

I would have written Obama in. 

Wasn't Ifill forbidden by the rules of the debate to ask follow-up questions?

I've heard that defense and candidly I say poppycock! (Thats right poppycock!).  If Ifill wanted to she could ask a follow up -- what would Palin or Biden have done, walked off the stage?  There are no debate police that would have arrested her.  I think Gwen Ifill didn't ask follow up questions because she was worried about being branded as partisan (in light of the book deal revelation).  Admittidly, I'm not a fan of the woman, I've never seen her provide any great insight or commentary when I've either read her or seen her on TV, but I try to be fair and I felt she did a poor job.  Thus far I think Brokaw has been the best moderator in this debate season -- and he did ask the follow up question.  As I've said before I miss Tim Russert!

Agreed. The people here who don't like Palin wouldn't vote for a Republican ticket anyway. Palin helped McCain with the gender gap and energized the social conservatives, who were lukewarm toward McCain. McCain got a nice bounce in the polls after nominating her. 

I've got to disagree with your on this point Bruce.  Because I don't like her and I would, and have, voted for Republican tickets.  I'm a northeastern Republican the region that was the historic base of the party but has in recent years been villafied by the party.  I favor less government interference with business, free trade (e.g. fewer restrictions), lower taxes to stimulate the economy and strong support for national defense.*  What I don't support within my party is the social agenda opposing abortion liberties, gay rights, and the like. I voted for Dubya in 2000 but he, and the neo-cons he's represented, have moved the country and the party in directions I don't like. 

For me, for a long time, Senator McCain represented a more "traditional" Republican view.  While I didn't necessarily agree with him on the social issues of the platform, those issues also were not at the front of his political interests -- his primary issues were more in line with my primary issues.  I wish I could vote for 2000 John McCain in 2008.  I don't believe that John McCain would have Palin on the ticket.  She represents the sort of know nothing talk radio republicanism that makes my head hurt.  So I think there are people who have voted Republican in the past who do have issues with her and what her selection by McCain means vis a vis his judgement.  From a national security standpoint I think she is easily the weakest of the four people who have the chance to be president.  But I can't accept your premise or Christopher's -- I do think she's hurt McCain.  If guys like me, Chris Buckley, George Will and David Brooks are raising issues about her -- how could independents not? 

I don't doubt that some folks are turned off by Palin, and I understand your reasoning. I think we tend to be of similar philosophical mindsets -- I'm definitely in the free trade/less government/lower taxes camp and the GOP has strayed away from those principles, much to their detriment.

But I think you've got to look at votes in the aggregate. Sure, Palin repels some independents and fiscal conservatives. But she's beloved by the Rush Limbaugh crowd, which has never warmed up to McCain.

Just looking purely at the poll numbers (which, admittedly, don't always tell the whole story), McCain got a good bump from the Palin nomination. He didn't lose that boost until the lending industry hit the iceberg. At that point, he could've had Ronald Reagan on the ticket and it wouldn't have mattered - McCain was in trouble (well, maybe Reagan could've saved it. But he's about the only one....)

But, like you, that's just my $0.02!

BTW, you submitted a brief to the State Supreme Court? That's really cool! Definitely a nice thing to put on a resume!

Okay Jodi, I guess there is no point in discussing this topic further.  It is abundantly obvious that you are going to keep going off on tangents and making excuses rather than admit you were incorrect.  I honestly believe you know you were incorrect but you just can't seem to bring yourself to verbalize anything if it doesn't help Obama in some way.

Palin never said she believed people could pray away the gay.  Period.

You were wrong.  You dancing around the issue doesn't make you any less wrong but it does make you look like a kool-aid drinker rather than someone who knows what's real and what isn't.

I think you are missing the point Scott.  Put aside, for a moment, Jodi's initial comment that Palin belives that being gay can be prayed away.  Her follow up point is salient and you have not addressed it -- specifically: If you hold Senator Obama accountable for his associations with Ayers or Wright should you not do the same with Palin and her association with a church that preached homosexuality can be "cured" through prayer?  Is that not an equally offensive position?  Does that not speak to her judgment?  The distinction which Jodi addressed and you have not responded to is that Senator Obama specifically and categorically stated that the comments made by Wright were not his beliefs.  You as a listener are entitled to believe or not believe him on that statement.  Has Governor Palin specifically and categorically denounced the insane (and offensive) idea that homosexuality can be prayed away?  I have not seen that she has.  Consequently, I, or Jodi, or you, could draw the inference that she believes it to be the case.  If the associations that Senator Obama has can be criticized than so can Governor Palin's.

Now, turning to Jodi's specific comment, initally it bears noting that she did amend it and explain it -- which you didn't accept.  If that language alone is what has set you off -- well knowing Jodi I'm sure she didn't say it to intentionally offend you.  I think she made the leap based on the information before her.  But I can't answer for her on that.  I do think if you are focusing specifically on the comment rather than the larger issue it addresses you a being somewhat myopic and your "kool aid" comment is based on that myopia.   

On the larger issue surrounding Palin's position on gay civil rights I think a case could be made that she opposes them.  Her response to Ifill's question at the debate was non-sensical (not that Biden's was any better).  Couple that with her resistance to sign the gay rights legislation and it would lead me to believe that she is opposed to gay civil rights.  I can't say that for sure -- on that issue I am not fully informed -- but based on what information I have thats the call I would make.   

BTW, you submitted a brief to the State Supreme Court? That's really cool! Definitely a nice thing to put on a resume!

Quite a few! Sadly not all of them were accepted by the Court!*

I happen to agree that economy is the larger factor hurting McCain -- but I think the Palin bump started flattening out before the economy went to shit. 

*Yet, one of which they quoted from extensively -- and my position was the one they adopted.  But the credit would have been nice!

But she's beloved by the Rush Limbaugh crowd, which has never warmed up to McCain.

************

Absolutely true. But there is no way in hell they would have voted for Obama. McCain may not have been their first choice but to them Obama isn't even a choice. They would have voted for McCain. No way would they allow Obama to take the White House by not voting.