Well thank you Geoff for finding a way around the maze to avoid saying whether Y-O-U would be willing to P-A-Y for the war effort.

I for one, would not give a dime. And if that meant troops come home tomorrow, well so be it. I will put my money where my mouth is.

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Rich, you apparently are willing to accept the protections offered by the U.S. Military. Without our men and women in uniform, we would have no freedoms.

That's one thing every pacifist and conscientious objecter needs to understand. The only reason they are able to express their beliefs in a free society is because of brave men and women willing to risk their lives for that freedom.

As much as I gripe about taxes (and I gripe more than anyone on this board, I think), I will never begrudge our fighting men and women one dime. They deserve it.

A line item veto was passed during the 1990s.  It was ruled unconstitutional.

I am unconcerned by so-called pork.  It is a minimal part of the budget.  Also, much of what one person considers pork is something others would consider a worthwhile expenditure. 

One of Senator McCain's favorite examples of pork is DNA testing of bears.  That is testing done to determine the size of the population of a particular species of bears that is endangered.  Now, perhaps you think the United States government should not be spending money on preserving the population of that species of bear.  But if you support the principles behind the Endangered Species Act, that's not frivolous.

Similarly, Senator McCain has recently been talking about a $3 million overhead projector for a planetarium in Chicago.  Well, that's a projector for the Adler Planetairum.  The Adler was the first planetarium in the Western hemisphere.  The projector it uses in its main theater is 40 years old and is no longer supported by its manufacturer.  So, if Congress had approved that earmark, it would have been approving a $3 million expenditure to help educate people who visit the Adler on astronomy.  Again, if you have a philosophical opposition to the federal government spending money on science education, then maybe you oppose that expenditure.  Maybe you think the Adler should pay for the projector itself and charge a higher admission to recoup the cost.  That's a reasonable position.  But what strikes me as an unreasonable position is Senator McCain's position that everything he characterizes as pork is per se a foolish expenditure.

That gets to Senator Obama's point about the foolishness of taking a hatchet to the budget.  Things are in the budget for a reason, and they shouldn't be haphazardly pulled from the budget without examining that reason and making a considered judgment as to whether that reason justifies the burden on the taxpayers.

Rich:

Where did I write: I didn't realize that only Democrats were willing to vote for time lines.

To your larger challenge, I pay my taxes.  All of them.  So yes I am willing to pay for the War.  But that doesn't mean I wanted to go to war.  Blaming only the Republicans for the war is as ridiculous as blaming only democrats for the failures of Fannie and Freddie.  Both parties are to blame.

But your request that only republicans foot the bill is just plain stupid.  Do I get to pick and choose every program or government initative that gets funded?  Can i choose not to fund public schools since my kids will be going to private school?  Lets take your proposal and apply it fairly and across the board and see where that gets us.  Lets all check off what we want to pay for and what we don't.  Is that a viable option?  I'm sorry but I cannot take your nonsensical rant seriously. 

If you want to discuss issues respectfully and fairly I'll be happy to join you -- but your unfair bombast and rhetoric is tiresome and serves neither you nor your ideas well.  

Jason well written thought out post, I really enjoyed it!

It would serve our next President well to re-read the speech I linked below.

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."

 Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1960

http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html

Edited to add: Rich you did come off snarky to Geoff, but the following post was very thoughtful and I agree with it completely.

Rich:

Guess you missed the larger point.  Pity that.

Jodi:

Isn't it scary how right Ike was and frighteningly prophetic?  What would he think of us now?

I know I have read that speech many times and am so sad we seem to not listen to what he had to say. That's when during the election you were a member of a political party and after that you became an American.

Geoff I think Rich makes a great point, the war on terror reminds me or the war on drugs.