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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 21 October 2008 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 1  

Holy Cow!  Joe is older than me??  When I met Joe, I would have pegged it the other way around - like he'd be a few years younger, not older.

 

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 21 October 2008 at 7:47am | IP Logged | 2  

Oh, by the way - I totally agree with Greg and Tom.
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Craig Markley
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Posted: 21 October 2008 at 8:16am | IP Logged | 3  

Draping the bullet-holed head of the shot bear with Obama signs isn't
clear enough that whatever kind of statement that's being made is at the
very least political? Good grief.

Sometimes people being assholes are just that, assholes.

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Al Cook
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Posted: 21 October 2008 at 8:22am | IP Logged | 4  

Political assholes, yes.
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 21 October 2008 at 8:22am | IP Logged | 5  

"Holy Cow!  Joe is older than me??"

Yep. It's pretty messed up. At the places I work at I look at all the younger people there and feel old and out of place. And of course they're looking back and saying "who's the new kid?"
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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 21 October 2008 at 8:23am | IP Logged | 6  

I said some pages back that I think this election will be a referendum on Race in America.  By that I don't mean if Obama were to lose that it is evidence of racism -- but I think we will be able to tell, based on how the votes shake out, if he wins or loses, how much his race had to do with it.  And the place we'll be able to tell that is in the Blue states.  In red states it would be hard to divine the difference between racism and disagreement with his policies.*  In blue states where there is a presumption of agreement with liberal policies I think if they swing red or not as strongly blue as in 2004 a good case could be made that race is involved. 

*And by that I don't mean to imply or state that disagreement with his policies is per se racism -- clearly its not -- I mean its harder to tell the impact of race when a state that is much more conservative because the votes of conservative voters, a great many of whom are unswayed by race, will be intermingled with those who are concerned with race be they liberal or conservative.



Edited by Geoff Gibson on 21 October 2008 at 8:25am
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Bruce Buchanan
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Posted: 21 October 2008 at 8:29am | IP Logged | 7  

Ugh. I just read the story and realized that the bear incident took place in North Carolina (at Western Carolina University, to be exact.) What a disgusting display. I wasn't even aware that it was legal to hunt bears in this state.

I hope the people who did this are apprehended. But I'd caution against drawing too many conclusions until they are. I'd say the culprits are just as likely to be ignorant yahoos playing a (decidedly cruel and unfunny) "practical joke" as they are political extremists trying to make a statement.

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Bruce Buchanan
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Posted: 21 October 2008 at 8:36am | IP Logged | 8  

Geoff, I hear what you are saying, but I'm somewhat uncomfortable trying to divine voter intent. We have no real way of knowing whether policy or race will drive voting in this election.

Also, while a great deal has been made in the media of the potential impact of white racism (the dreaded "Bradley Effect"), what about Obama's record-setting support among African-Americans?

While African-Americans, as a group traditionally do vote heavily Democratic, poll numbers show Obama running at record levels among African-Americans - around 93 percent, according to one poll I saw.

Isn't it possible that some African-Americans are voting for Obama simply because he's black? And, if so, how is that appreciably different than whites voting against him on purely racial grounds? A sticky subject, to be sure.

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Marc Baptiste
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Posted: 21 October 2008 at 8:36am | IP Logged | 9  

It looks like the anti-gay marriage initiative (Prop. 8) out here in CA will probably pass... sniff.  I blame people like Geoff Gibson.



(I'M SO KIDDING!!! about the Geoff part... sadly, it really does look like it is going to pass)
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Al Cook
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Posted: 21 October 2008 at 8:38am | IP Logged | 10  

The chose political signs. Even if their thought process didn't go a milimetre
past "hey, now let's put some election signs on it's head" it is still
intrinsically a political statement. They chose election signs, not pizza
boxes.
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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 21 October 2008 at 8:41am | IP Logged | 11  

While African-Americans, as a group traditionally do vote heavily Democratic, poll numbers show Obama running at record levels among African-Americans - around 93 percent, according to one poll I saw.

Isn't it possible that some African-Americans are voting for Obama simply because he's black? And, if so, how is that appreciably different than whites voting against him on purely racial grounds? A sticky subject, to be sure.

I think its different to vote for someone, rather than against someone, but I hear you.

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Bruce Buchanan
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Posted: 21 October 2008 at 8:43am | IP Logged | 12  

That's very true, Al. In any case, it was a bad thing to do.

I'm just thinking that since the dead bear was left on a college campus (which undoubtedly is a hotbed for Obama), it may have been the work of some jerk who thought, "Hmmm...these college kids like Obama. I bet this will really tick them off."

That's just a theory, though. I have no idea why someone would do such an awful thing. I'm personally as bothered by the animal cruelty aspect of it as much as anything. It can't be legal to shoot a bear cub, can it? If it is, it ain't right. 

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