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Greg Reeves
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 February 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1396
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| Posted: 24 October 2008 at 11:14am | IP Logged | 1
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I'd rather Americans get a small part of our tax dollars than Iraqis getting lots of them.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10927
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| Posted: 24 October 2008 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 2
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When I go to the grocery store and see people buying expensive steaks with food stamps (or food debit cards now) and using their cash to buy cigarettes and alcohol, it really bothers me.
Two thoughts on this:
How often do you see this? With your own eyes? LIke, you're right there, looking at the guy doing it? And it's various people, not the same guy?
Second - SOME (not all, not even the majority) are poor because they don't know how to handle money. Obviously, if someone is wasting thier gov't assisstance on unneeded items, they need attention. Someone in the agency needs to council the person about budgeting and money management.
I don't know if departments like that exist - I do know that I have a cousin who gets a gov't check, and she has to meet with her counciler and social worker constantly - fill out forms, submit to interviews - I can't help but think there is, or should be, a way to get to the (VERY) few people who abuse the system and correct them.
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12734
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| Posted: 24 October 2008 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 3
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Poor people should eat flank steak anyway.
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Michael Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 December 2004
Posts: 831
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| Posted: 24 October 2008 at 11:18am | IP Logged | 4
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Michael, Sarkozy came in office warning about the over-valued Euro and pushing for the protectionism of French industry. No fault there, but it isn't anything new. Even as he praised the US in some aspects, he offered legitimate complaint about the longstanding policy of the US and China (tied directly to the dollar) working purposefully to keep the dollar at artificially low value to increase our trade at Europe's expense. I agree with your assessment regarding the US adopting such a policy.
To your credit, the potentiality, however, is greater now than I've given it credit for being in our past arguments. I maintain the position that it's an utter impossibility, but keep that in mind in case I have to eat crow over the next two years.
Laughing on the "see no evil, etc" bit. Yeah, Greenspan went even further than the three monkeys by specifically attempting to distance himself from any negligence. I didn't get the three monkeys until you mentioned it, but I did think of the "Who me?" caricature.
Pax, and thanks for the well wishes. Right back at you...
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Michael Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 December 2004
Posts: 831
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| Posted: 24 October 2008 at 11:20am | IP Logged | 5
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Al wrote:
OK, Michael, perhaps I should phrase my question like this:
Why not elect your president on a strict basis of total votes cast by individual
voting citizens?
Bonus points will be awarded for not bringing Canada into your answer at
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And, how might I go about rephrasing my previous response, Al?
"As to your second question, are you really, as it reads, asking me to give you a labored run-down on the very system itself? Really? As I've previously taken that path in threads in this forum--which you've read--perhaps you'd take the initiative in explaining just how a national, direct vote might prove preferable in *any* sense?"
You see the impasse? How about we start with whatever you think was left out of the last go-around, in which we *both* participated, and then play it as it lays?
Electoral College Debate #4678576
I mean, as opposed to expecting me to pen a lengthy essay covering aspects already long addressed and with which we're both familiar?
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17820
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| Posted: 24 October 2008 at 11:21am | IP Logged | 6
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I'm with you, Mr. McCormick.
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Scott Richards
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2005
Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 24 October 2008 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 7
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Mike, I wouldn't have said "When I go to the grocery store" if I wasn't talking about seeing it with my own eyes. I see it a lot here in Florida. I'd say at least quarter of the time I go to the store. And it's often a whole shopping cart full of meat and yes, various people (and sometimes the same people).
To me, people who buy cigarettes or alcohol (or cable TV or cell phone, etc) and receive government assistance are wasting our tax dollars on those items indirectly because if they didn't spend their cash on those items they would be able to afford the things they need assistance with.
If people don't know how to handle money, teach them how to handle money, don't just give them money. That's like giving someone a transfusion without stopping the bleeding.
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Michael Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 December 2004
Posts: 831
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| Posted: 24 October 2008 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 8
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Here's my feeling on the Electoral College System being a dem living in a red state.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rFFzBDCHKY __________ "And what could be more "American" than the notion of advancing some
form of safeguard against the threat of a tyranny of the majority while
still preserving democratic values along the lines of a NATIONAL office
in our republic? That's what we're talking about, after all. You and
I both support the underlaying theory of gay marriage (equality before
the law), for instance; so, should that too be left only to the will of
the majority along the lines of what you are erroneously espousing as
the 'American way' as it concerns the election of the Executive branch?" And, a dedication going out to Jodi, from the American Electoral College System: Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood
Edited by Michael Myers on 24 October 2008 at 11:26am
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William McCormick
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2006
Posts: 3297
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| Posted: 24 October 2008 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 9
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I wonder how you diferentiate between those that want and those that need. A single mother cannot possibly work 2 or 3 jobs and still be a good mother. I take that back, she can be a good mother, just not a mother who is home with her kids. Sorry, I'll pay more taxes so she can be.
Call me a socialist. I don't give a shit. But if my extra taxes mean that woman can be home to take care of her kids, then I'm happy to pay. Call it me doing my part for someone else's American dream.
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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12734
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| Posted: 24 October 2008 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 10
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What was left out was a simple, direct answer to my question.
Why not?
I don't get it. I read and re-read those threads and I don't get it. I read the
concerns of voting citizens in this thread who feel their vote is useless due
to the current system and I don't get it.
But I have no desire to be further condescended to by you, so let's just drop
this one right here, Michael.
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Scott Richards
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2005
Posts: 1258
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| Posted: 24 October 2008 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 11
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Poor people should eat flank steak anyway.
In my poor days I didn't eat steak of any kind. Well, maybe trouser steak, LOL.
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Adam Hutchinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4502
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| Posted: 24 October 2008 at 11:30am | IP Logged | 12
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William McCormick, much like Geoff Gibson, is a wise, wise man.
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Topic Closed)
