"How much land do you think Israel would have if it hadn't been immediately attacked after the partition?"

Does it matter?

I'm sorry but this debate is just a digression, and it's not worth the space. As I've said, it all boils down to one thing for me, and that's whether the "israelis" had any right to claim that land and establish a state in the first place. And I don't see that they had any rights that would be recognized as legitimate when coming from anybody else.

So just ignore this and lets get back to thrashing McCain. Boy, that guy is older than me.

David, people in America are particularly sensitive when criticism of Israel's government and how it conducts its affairs (much of which is valid criticism) is so easily tinged with...'because they have no right to statehood, anyway'. I don't mind anyone recognizing Israel's right to exist while expressing disagreement with what they do, but, rightly or wrongly, anyone who doesn't believe the Israeli state has a right to exist is labeled an 'anti-semite'...even if that term is technically incorrect, since so many Muslim Middle eastern peoples are also 'semitic'. So, the 'correct', if not 'politically correct', term could only be 'Jew-hater'.

And nobody in their right mind wants that label.

I think that people assume that if you are making comments against Israel, you are Anti-Semitic.

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Because that's easier than, y'know, refuting their arguments.

(I have no dog in that hunt, I'm just saying one of the "rules" of "discourse" is take the easy way out early and often.)

I've read the argument that Germany should have been carved up for a Jewish state. If that had happened, wouldn't the same arguments about 'who has the right' and 'what about the displaced' be going on today?

If it wasn't for all that narrow-minded shit about 'infidels', the partition of Palestine could have worked.